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SAT concordance table - compare old and new SAT scores

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Replies to: SAT concordance table - compare old and new SAT scores

  • AgentninetynineAgentninetynine Registered User Posts: 1,553 Senior Member
    @mamelot I have so many questions. First off, why curve at all? And if they do curve why not curve the current test?
  • mmk2015mmk2015 Registered User Posts: 542 Member
    These tests have to curve to maintain the Bell "curve" (i.e., most of the population scores in the middle, with a few on the low side, and a few on the high side).

    And they can't "curve" based just on one test administration because that would not be statistically accurate/significant. It has to be curved based on a large sample size administered over several tests. Therefore, the score you get on one test in any given month can be compared to a score achieved on a test in any other month.

    There is no such thing as an "easy" or "hard" month. If a test is easier than another, the scales account for that. That's why you can make 1 mistake on one test and still get a perfect score, whereas one mistake on another test drops your score. The former is an "harder" test, the latter is an "easier" test.
  • AgentninetynineAgentninetynine Registered User Posts: 1,553 Senior Member
    edited May 2016
    Thank you @mmk2015. Even after the curve don't most students end up on the middle as well? Is the ACT also curved? The ACT posted a short essay about the concordance tables and how their scores helped predict how many students would get a B or C in college classes. So are these tests showing college readiness? And if so why is the curve necessary. I'm having a block here.
  • ivysourceivysource Registered User Posts: 159 Junior Member
    @Agentninetynine Yes the ACT is also curved.
  • mmk2015mmk2015 Registered User Posts: 542 Member
    Yes, ACT "norms" like SAT, but ACT is based on a larger sample size: 5.6 million students, three years worth of testing (2013, 2014, 2015).

    I don't know if these tests show college readiness. A few colleges ran studies recently (I don't remember which ones, but you can easily Google that info) that indicated that GPA was a better indicator of college readiness than these test scores. The idea is that 4 years worth of grades is more valuable insight than 4 hrs or testing.

    Of course, you can easily argue that grade inflation makes it really hard to compare GPAs of students across different schools, especially across different countries. So these tests allow comparison on one common test.

    The best answer for how to best determine college readiness is probably to look at everything: GPA, Standardized Test Scores, Extra Curriculars, college application essays, etc. The so called "Hollistic" approach.
  • AgentninetynineAgentninetynine Registered User Posts: 1,553 Senior Member
    Thanks again @mmk2015. I have also read the study regarding gpa. When it's all broken down, it's a little crazy making to think how little these tests really say about the student, but how much attention scores are given.
  • Ruby789Ruby789 Registered User Posts: 352 Member

    @GMTplus7 says: " You end up with the situation at UT Austin where kids admitted on the basis of class rank in non-rigorous schools, are flunking out of college."

    I notice your other posts on this subject are fact based and the problem with my post is that it is fantasy. What I meant is that if every school didn't consider the SAT scores, and used only other data. I am actually ashamed that I posted what I did, because clearly, it is never going to happen that SAT/ACT scores won't be used, just as there will probably not ever be world peace. But IF no school used test scores, including the top schools, what happened at UT Austin wouldn't be a factor.

    @Erin'sDad: I think most schools use test scores, but are "test optional" in order to NOT report some scores,and only report the scores for students who have high scores. That isn't really what I mean.

    I shouldn't have posted what I did, because I know it won't happen. It's just that this past weekend I was talking to some seniors from my D2's high school. These kids are all going to top fifty schools. They are all great students. We had a discussion about how nice it was to be done with college admissions. I made a comment about how stressful college admissions is these days. The kids went on to tell me that they thought it was too much pressure and all the reasons why. Test scores is a big reason. These kids (including mine) are done with that, and now a whole new crop of kids will have that pressure. I think it is a shame.
  • MamelotMamelot Registered User Posts: 2,116 Senior Member
    <<Do you think colleges will just take the new SAT scores they receive this fall, perform their own statistical analysis based on actual test takers, and ignore the noise coming from the CB?>>

    @bucketDad beats the heck outta me. I think it will depend on the college. Some schools (including at least one that my D3 is applying to) require all scores to be sent. Of course that's going to provide quite a bit of data on an applicant-by-applicant basis already.

    The general rule should probably still hold: submit your best score unless otherwise directed. If you want to provide context that's specific to YOU (as opposed to general conversion factors) then also provide another score from another test (either ACT or one of the SATs).

    D3 is probably going to provide all her scores to everyone (she has ACT, new SAT and subject tests). While her ACT stacks up best against "the competition" her new SAT results are totally consistent and within the 50% range of some pretty selective schools. It won't hurt to submit and can only help. Sadly, she doesn't expect to do nearly as well (percentile-wise) on her subject tests. Good grief a perfect 800 on Math II is the 81st percentile!!!
  • AgentninetynineAgentninetynine Registered User Posts: 1,553 Senior Member
    @Mamelot Is this the way it's always been or is this due to the SAT changes?
    Good grief a perfect 800 on Math II is the 81st percentile!!!
  • suzyQ7suzyQ7 Registered User Posts: 2,913 Senior Member
    I think its the way its been for Math II. My son took it too and skipped 8 questions - not pretty. Hopefully the ones he didn't skip are all correct!
  • Eventually3Eventually3 Registered User Posts: 3 New Member
    Do any of you know if the CB has published new norms/averages/concordance tables for younger students taking the new SAT?
  • hebegebehebegebe Registered User Posts: 1,696 Senior Member
    Thanks again @mmk2015. I have also read the study regarding gpa. When it's all broken down, it's a little crazy making to think how little these tests really say about the student, but how much attention scores are given.
    Why do you think they say little about the student? GPA provides context within a school system, but only standardized tests can provide context across school systems. I think the latter is nearly as important as the former.
  • lostaccountlostaccount Registered User Posts: 4,568 Senior Member
    Ruby789, it is also a shame that so many students have their eye on the most competitive 20-50 schools. If they didn't have their eye on a very narrow range of schools they would not have to fret so much about getting in. They value only those schools about which they have to fret.
  • payn4wardpayn4ward Registered User Posts: 2,731 Senior Member
    http://www.act.org/content/act/en/about-act/perspectivesandhappenings.html
    ACT takes exception to two statements made in the College Board’s response: First, Buckley claimed that the College Board’s approach to developing concordance exceeds industry standards. That is not the case. It certainly did not meet testing industry standards, such as The Standards for Educational and Psychological Testing. Second, Buckley claimed that the College Board reached out to ACT several months ago to express their interest in conducting a new SAT-ACT concordance study. We are not aware of any such outreach.

    ACT stands ready to cooperate in such a concordance study, as we have in the past. Until that study has been conducted and the results released, ACT will not recognize or approve of any concordance tables that compare scores on the new SAT to scores on the ACT® test.
    ACT calling SAT a liar :))
  • YnotgoYnotgo Registered User Posts: 3,371 Senior Member
    edited May 2016
    ^ Interesting. Can anyone find the College Board's response by Jack Buckley that is referenced in the ACT's 2nd post?

    Edit: Found it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/05/12/whats-a-college-test-score-worth-an-sat-vs-act-dispute/
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