J'adoube

I guess S was seen as both intellectual and hardworking.

ChoklitRain

^ Your S is also a loser that my S could beat the **** out of.

hopeful2b_yank3e

Oh, and I still haven't gotten my answer... that's okay... just keeping discussing

ChoklitRain

^ Barrons books are always harder. but stop trying to predict your score. spend more time practicing. you'll figure out your score when you take it in september

1253729

Well, lets see...The May 2009 test is one that comes to mind. I'm pretty sure one or two of the tests in BB2 also let you do that...

cooljazz

Well I am not familiar with the May test, but the Eric the Red Curve listing shows that only 3 out of 11 tests from 2006-2008 allowed 1 math question wrong for an 800. Again, you can get a 34 on ANY section on the ACT on ANY testing date for a 36.

Now let me explain the testing policies of the elite universities. They are not stupid. They know that the SAT and the ACT are completely different tests. Why would they treat them as perfectly equal?! Here are some weaknesses that all elite universities realize about the ACT:

1. The questions do not require critical reasoning, and are very straightforward.
2. The essay component does not factor into the number score.
3. Most sections only have four choices per question, not five.
4. There is NO guessing penalty.
5. The ACT is shorter than the SAT, and takes less endurance.
6. The ACT is favored by states in the Midwest that are generally less competetive than states on the coasts. Some states have even made the ACT mandatory. This skews the percentiles, and makes a 99% on the ACT less significant than a 99% on the SAT.
7, The Science section is primarily data analysis, and is not an accurate test of any concrete material.

Again, all elite colleges know these simple facts. They take these factors into account when comparing applicants' score reports. Naturally, they value the SAT more than the ACT. The ACT is simply an easier test.

An admissions officer told me all of these facts. Colleges do not say anything against the ACT because they are private institutions looking for profit and prestige. They want to maximize the number of applicants, and thereby maxmize the money they make from application fees. Also, they want the most applicants in order to lower their acceptance rates and increase their own prestige. Colleges also undoubtedly have lucrative deals with the ACT company themselves.

It may alarm you that colleges are not being perfectly honest, but remember their statements about race and admissions. Also, they are not being dishonest per se, because they do accept the ACT. It is just not valued quite as highly.

These are the facts. Sorry to all the advocates of the ACT who maybe did not do so well on the SAT. To anyone who still can't accept this, just answer these questions.

After reading the reasons above, do you think the ACT is an easier test than the SAT?

Why would the colleges, knowing all that they know, treat two completely different tests perfectly equally?

xcfan

This debate about SAT versus ACT seems to be missing a few key points.

1. As practical matter schools have to compare applicants submitting both tests. They can do this easily by converting scores on one to the other, using either the published national concordance tables on the SAT and ACT websites or a specific concordance table developed for that school. I have heard several admissions officers say this is precisely what they do. Once the scores have been converted to a common scale, the likelihood of one getting more weight than the other drops considerably.

2. I have never seen any evidence suggesting that elite schools put so much emphasis on test scores that the nuances between ACT 36 versus SAT 2400 would matter. Both scores demonstrate the applicant is at the extremely high end of the national applicant pool. To the contrary, the evidence seems to indicate that elite schools have so many applicants with high test scores that other factors matter more. Any review of either CC threads on acceptances or data on similar web site (eg "mychances") will show lots of applicants with high test scores being rejected in favor of kids with strong test scores but other factors in their favor. The applicant with the ACT 35 and glowing recommendations is going to beat the applicant with the SAT 2400 and weak recommendations every time.

3. Most elite schools also require SAT IIs. Any nuances between ACT 36 and SAT 2400 are likely to be trumped by the effect of the SAT IIs on the admissions decision. Many leading commentators (the UC system, Fitzsimmons at Harvard) have argued the SAT IIs are a more useful tool. (As an aside, the SAT IIs are more like the ACT than the SAT.)

J'adoube

Think of them as the 1500m run and the 5000m run. Many people excel at either one of them. Few people at both. They are all still considered superb athletes.

cit

the science section is what gets most people on the act. even though they say you don't really need knowledge of science, all the lab questions and such are easier if you have taken ap bio, ap chem, ap physics. When I took the act, background knowledge really made a difference in making it easier to finish the section in time.

gbesq

Oh, an admissions officer told you? Well then, it must be true. I guess he/she speaks for all of the approximately 3,000 colleges and universities in the U.S., including all of the elite institutions, huh? Did he/she also explain to you why his/her particular institution then LIES about its standardized test preference by stating on its website that either test is equally acceptable? Are you telling us that institutions like Harvard, Yale, etc. that have multi billion dollar endowments that are larger than the GDP of some countries are concerned about maximizing the amount of money that they make from application fees -- are you insane? Newsflash: Harvard and its brethren do not need to increase the number of applications they receive and thereby lower their acceptance rates by lying about their preferences for standardized tests. What is the nature of the "lucrative deals" that these elite institutions have with the testing companies? I'm sure you must have more to back this up than innuendo. Post a link to the information, cooljazz.

Again, other than your inside track with the nameless admissions officer, where is your proof of this statement? Why not just post the name of the admissions officer and his/her institution? I, for one, would like to know.

Um, no they are not. They are innuedo which you cannot, and have not, supported with any facts.

No, and the national reports for the SAT and the ACT bear this out. Why don't you go read them?

Because either test, combined with an analysis of the applicant's high school record, is a reasonably good way of comparing applicants and predicting which will succeed at college level work.

cooljazz, please stop wasting our time with your low content, opinion based posts on this topic. You don't know the facts and you haven't supported any of your assertions with real evidence. You're doing a great disservice to everybody on this thread who is contemplating taking the ACT and/or submitting his/her ACT score in lieu of, or in addition to, SAT scores.

Jayay90

@ cit: The science section for me was one of the easiest. I don't think you needed to know anything about science. It was literally reading graphs. That's it. And maybe a question about the scientific method. You don't really need advanced science knowledge unless you have trouble with reading graphs.

ChoklitRain

gbesq, if you are suggesting that Harvard doesn't care about getting as many applications as possible, you are wrong. it is an important goal of the admissions office.

gbesq

^Please read my posts more carefully. I did not suggest that. What I did say is that Harvard -- or any other college or university for that matter -- does not misrepresent that it views the ACT as an equal to the SAT for the purpose of increasing its applicant pool, as cooljazz suggests. To think otherwise is nonsensical.

Yakyu Spirits

ACT and SAT are viewed equally. How hard is this to understand?

ChoklitRain

^ The same colleges will tell you that white and black applicants are viewed equally, so who really knows?