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Old 11-16-2009, 08:15 PM   #31
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stix2400/moricarak,

Your anecdotal evidence aside, the numbers are what they are, and they don't support your arguments. milwdad and bclintonk have it right -- it is no easier to do well on the ACT than it is on the SAT.
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:33 PM   #32
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I loled at the post above mine. No proof to even back up your absurd claim.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:07 AM   #33
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I don't believe that the SAT is an intelligence test, since I went from a 1900 to a 2260 after a little bit of studying.
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Old 11-17-2009, 09:50 PM   #34
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The tests are simply different. One is not an IQ test. They are graded on bell curves.

Case in point. If IQ correlates with SAT and scholastic performance with ACT...

MY IQ: 161 (top 0.0024%)
MY SAT: 2270 (top 0.0067%) (9400ish/1.4Mish)

Another kid I know's IQ: 151 (top .034%)
Another kid I know's SAT: 2400 (top .0002%)

MY GPA: top 1.5%
MY ACT: 36 (top .0003%) (500ish to 600ish/ 1.5Mish)

Another kid I know's GPA: top 5%
Another kid I know's ACT: 36 (top .0003%)

Clearly, the correlation is not as you've described. Both of us slack more in school, yet did better on the ACT. I was sick on the SAT date and refused to retake because I hate it. Everyone is just vouching for the superiority of the test in which they excelled more.
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Old 11-17-2009, 09:53 PM   #35
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And anyone that says blacks are inferior needs to shut the ***** up. The SAT is a test of how wealthy your parents and environment are. Hence, the people who were enslaved for hundreds of years and have only had the option of university for a generation are at a ridiculous disadvantage. Shut up you racist pig.

Last edited by Anerkedpie; 11-17-2009 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:12 PM   #36
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The bottom line: The SAT was never meant to be an IQ test. If colleges wanted to base it off of IQ they can go ask for an IQ test.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:58 AM   #37
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Think about it this way. Get a bunch of questions wrong on CR/Writing, still maintain a ~750+. Get 3 questions wrong on any section of the ACT? You're getting a 31 or less. Goodluck.
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Old 11-18-2009, 02:52 AM   #38
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Let's see, ACT 2004-2005 prep booklet

72/75 raw, English - 33
57/60 raw, Math - 33
37/40 raw, Reading - 32
37/40 raw, Science - 30

There goes your argument. Granted, the science for this particular test must have been ridiculously easy because -1 yielded a 34.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:40 AM   #39
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They're simply different tests. Some people will do better on one, whereas others will excel at the other.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:36 AM   #40
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Regional statistics

Are there any statistics by region about who takes SAT v. ACT? In my son's school here in Michigan all Juniors take the ACT for free in school. As a general rule, the ACT scores are what students in Michigan use for their applications to State schools. It seems like the only kids who go ahead and take the SAT also (they have to pay for it) are the ones who are considering private schools or out of state schools.

My point is, could there be a correlation between the type of school you are looking at and which test you take? My S will take both because he is looking at Stanford, MIT, etc. Some of his friends in AP class who have U of Mich as their #1 choice will just rely on their ACT score because it is easy to predict that if you get a 32 or above, you'll get into U of Mich.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:37 PM   #41
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Quote:
Are there any statistics by region about who takes SAT v. ACT?
Sure. Both the College Board and ACT, Inc. publish statistics on how many students in each state take their tests, and it's easy to convert those into percentages of HS graduates. Here are the most recent figures for the ACT:

ACT National and State Scores for 2009: Average ACT Scores by State

And for the SAT in a recent year (2007):

SAT scores by state - USATODAY.com

Most states in the Midwest (except Indiana) and in the South Central U.S. are ACT-dominant, meaning that virtually all college-bound HS students take the ACT; typically a much smaller fraction, less than 10% in many of these states, take the SAT, and those who do take the SAT are in many cases students looking to apply to top colleges on the East or West Coasts where the SAT is dominant. Since these are often among the better students---and/or come from more affluent families who can afford to pay for the testing and have the luxury of contemplating sending junior off to an elite college far away from home---average SAT scores in many Midwestern states are among the highest in the country. But this is almost entirely a case of selection bias; the smaller pool of SAT-takers in the Midwest is heavily skewed toward top students and those from affluent families.

It's a slightly different story in the SAT-dominant states on the coasts. In these states, only a small fraction of students take the ACT. But it's a different fraction. The kids who take the ACT in SAT-dominant states are mainly those who are taking the ACT because they're dissatisfied with their SAT scores and hope to do better on a different test---as some do. Those with the highest SAT scores---which includes many of the top students---often won't bother to take the ACT. As a result, ACT scores in SAT-dominant states tend not to be unusually high. For example, in Maryland only 17% take the ACT, but the average composite score in that state, 22.1, is actually lower than the average composite score of 22.7 in Minnesota where 68%---virtually all the college-bound HS students---take the ACT.

All this contributes to a subtle or not-so-subtle perception bias. In the Midwest, the SAT tends to be seen as a test for high-achievers with high college aspirations; the ACT is for everyone else. On the Coasts, the SAT is seen as the norm, and the ACT is for those who didn't do well on their SATs, i.e., hard-working strivers who don't quite make the grade on the SAT which is seen as a test of native smarts. It's all nonsense, of course. The differences in test scores from state-to-state can be explained almost entirely by selection bias and demographic factors like the level of the parents' educational attainment and family income that are closely correlated with test scores.

States like Michigan where ACT testing is now mandatory for all HS juniors whether or not they plan to attend college come out looking particularly bad in state-to-state comparisons, but again, it's almost entirely demographics. You'd bring down any state's average scores if you included the non-college-bound in the sample.

Here's a pretty good NY Times article on the subject:

Why the Midwest Rules on the SAT - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:48 PM   #42
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So does that mean that you are better off focusing on trying to improve your score on the SAT if applying to East Coast and West Coast schools, rather than relying on a decent ACT or retaking the ACT multiple times? For example Cornell accepts both SAT or ACT. Should my son take an ACT prep course and try to get his ACT score up to a 35 or 36? Or would his time be better spent with an SAT prep course shooting for a high score on that?

Last edited by flalaw97; 11-19-2009 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:14 PM   #43
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the SAT is a system you have to take. It doesn't really test what you actually know.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:26 PM   #44
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Thanks bclintonk! Great information and great links - which led to more links...
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:14 PM   #45
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I think the only way to truly compare them would be to take the scores of people who have taken both tests and see which test they score better on. A straight-up comparison with kids who took both would be the best, and I think only, way to really compare them. East Coast v. Midwest, laws like Michigan's... get rid of that, take the kids who took both, and compare.
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