suprafreshkid

What about math majors?

ucbalumnus

Why would one major in English or political science for patent law? Patent law prefers those with science or engineering bachelor's degrees, and physics and engineering majors who take the LSAT do better than English or political science majors who take the LSAT.

ucbalumnus

Common destinations for applied math majors include finance, actuarial, and computer software jobs. Pure math majors may have a harder time, but those wanting to prepare for backup jobs in case PhD study in math does not pan out should have enough schedule space to take some "applied" courses.

alwayswonderines

"What is it with Science Majors?" - that is a question that rings true to my life.

Day after day when people ask, "what do you wanna major in?" a lot of responses tend to be "oh, idk, something medical." It only allows me to infer that it may be a pressured choice, a popular option, indecision, or simply because it is a popular field that so happens to yield many jobs with good salaries/incomes. The thing that irks me the most is that it seems to me that many people who respond this way may not be truly passionate for the field. And surprisingly, if there are any who actually pursue it, only few are successful. "Medical" majors aren't the only majors that can give you good salaries, nor is it an "end all be all" to high paying, exciting careers. I'd like to think that the major anyone ends up choosing allows them to be in a satisfying career, not just a job. Besides, how will anyone earn good money if they are sick of their job?

Science fields are vast. So many different careers and majors to choose from; so many positions and degrees to get; so many options and honestly, it is very flexible. I believe the reason why so many people like the idea of science majors is because of the feeling of security. Like what i said before, people are attracted to it because the popular majors tend to produce a lot of a lot of popular successful people. Key word here is POPULAR. Not all bio and chem majors will be doctors. Not all physics majors will be the next Einstein. The time, the effort, the amount of schooling, THE LOANS ESPECIALLY all add up.

Let's not forget to mention the pressure to have a successful career that earns a lot of cash. I think that a lot of students in our generation feel like if they're not good in science or in math they won't do well and they won't earn good salaries. And I think that a lot of people are deterred from their preferred major(s) because of the idea that it won't make a lot of cash. So they may stick with a science major even if they don't necessarily feel they can excel in it. Take for example nursing, it was popular then and still is mostly because of the cash and while no doubt there are people who are dedicated and who excel in it, there were still loads of people who were shocked to find out the kind of work it took to be a nurse so they dropped it. (It's either that or they just don't like it). I'm not saying they're lazy. I'm just saying that it's not what they expected.

So people please, before you start calling yourself a science major please research into it. Know exactly what you want to do and what job you want to get into because just saying "idk something medical" doesn't really help you. Saying "idk something in science" won't help you. It isn't a guaranteed ticket to riches.

On the other hand if you truly feel like science is your calling please still do research. Please be patient because I know that it's a challenging time. Plan what you're actually GONNA DO with that major! A bio or psychology major won't help you none if you don't know what YOU GONNA DO after college.

Main point: RESEARCH AND DON'T ASSUME. DON'T just do the popular choice! Actually think about what you do best in or what you enjoy, and think about your future and career! You don't need to make a decision now, but it's good to actually know what you want to do with your life, right?

churchmusicmom

My D, who graduated from Barnard in 2009, was an unexpected science major! Her original plan was to pursue dance/performance while getting a challenging academic degree in something like English Lit. But then she "discovered" a love of neuroscience.

She is now pursuing her PhD, and it's fully funded. So after graduation (from undergrad), instead of madly seeking any kind of job (or auditioning for shows while tutoring or something to pay the bills), she is doing research (which she LOVES) while earning her PhD and supporting herself. Is she rich? Nope. Is she happy? Yep. Are her "prospects" good? Yep.

Point is, if science is your thing and you are a good student, it's an exciting path to follow!

sschoe2

churchmusicmom...
your daughter probably saw that the jobs she could get look like this

Aerotek Scientific
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Category: Scientific Jobs
Rate: $14.00 to $15.00 per Hour
Job Type: Contract-to-Hire
Posting ID: 2593024
Posting Date: 7/2/2012

Must have BS in Chemistry/Biology
Shift M-F - 8am to 5pm with overtime available

Responsibilities:
- Performs routine tasks that occur in the lab under supervision
- May revise documents under the direction of supervision
- May perform non-routine tasks under the direction of supervision
Demonstrated Knowledge, Skills and Characteristics:
- Developing competence to complete routine tasks
- Developing basic level understanding of cGMPs
- Developing understanding of basic analytical techniques such as:
- HPLC
- Dissolution
- UV/Vis
- FTIR
- SPE
- Sample Preparation Techniques
- GC
- Titration/ Electrode Chemistry
- Others as appropriate
- Developing oral and written communication skills
- Accountable and fair to co-workers
- Maintains proper social etiquette and self-control when dealing with stressful situations.
Education:
- BS/MS in chemistry or related field

and opted for the PhD thinking the job prospects are better. However, that is not the case. Their is a huge glut of science PhD's especially in the life sciences. As a result, most after they graduate end up in post-doc limbo going from one post doc to another until they hit 40, their career dead ends and they have to start over with a career change. Come back when your daughter graduates as you really not qualified to speak on what it is like finding a job with a science degree yet. Everyone was filled with optimism and enjoyed science as a student. It is not as enjoyable when you graduate and have reality brutally beat into you by the job market.

sschoe2

BTW I am a chemistry major with a graduate degree not a biology major though I was heavy into biochem I don't even bother to use any of that as it is even worse trying to get a job with a biology major than with a chemistry major though chemistry isn't much better.

Here is a survey by the American Chemical Society
Chemjobber: Well, that's not good news

There is 15-20% flat out unemployment but what is discerned from the survey is even more troubling. Only 40% of all chemistry graduates are employed full time. Even worse than that more than 1/2 of that 40% are in academia where at the BS/MS level you are talking about dead end technician jobs with very poor pay and no prospects for advancement. Also at the PhD level in academia a minority are tenured professors most are adjunct professors or post-docs which aloo are not a stable nor decent paying position.

sschoe2

dheldreth

Just because there is a long list of possible job titles or specialties is not an indicator of a healthy scientific job market. Just how many Herpetologists and Musical acoustics scientists do you think are hired by industry in the USA and Other than tenured professor most of the jobs in academia are total crap in terms of pay and advancement potential. Also, you need to have very specific scientific training and experience to pursue what few jobs there are in such a specific field. So say you get a PhD in herpetology. There may be a job opening every few months that is appropriate to you and there are several hundred other herpetologists applying for it.

Tenure track jobs as I previously mentioned are in very short supply and there are 100's of PhD's pursuing every one.

There seem to be a lot of parents and students that have joined this thread and are parroting propaganda and optimism when they have no real world knowledge of the science job market.

musicguru5

This would be a fine example of thread-hijacking.

Sschoe2, I'm sorry you haven't gotten a job, but some of us scientists are doing just fine. Churchmusicmom, congratulations to your daughter for finding something she loves to do, and I wish her the best in her new degree program.

- 1-month-from-finishing Ph.D. in climate science, got my pick of job offers with great pay and benefits, moving to New York City. Does that make me *qualified* to speak to finding a job with a science degree?

sschoe2

Actually I do have a pretty good job in science in the food industry. I had to work like heck and it took me 3 years and over 2 dozen interviews to get it. I also consider myself almost an expert in terms of the job market for science majors in the USA.

Given the trends I am seeing, the experience I and all my colleagues have had I absolutely cannot recommend it to others. Almost all major employers that hire scientists are in bad shape and I do not think they will recover in anytime in the near future. Pharma especially has been laying off in droves, moving most scientific functions to China and India, and using the glut of scientists remaining to offer obscenely low pay and forcing scientists to work on contract where they receive no benefits, raises, career development. Most of my colleagues have career changed out of the field or went into teaching and I think when I inevitably get laid off of my current job that is what I will end up having to do.

vienneselights

@the guy that is complaining about military spending


Did you know that the US military sector hires, and pays well, many more excellent scientists than does NASA? As do other unglamorous sectors such as oil and mining, agriculture.

Perhaps scientists would benefit most by understanding their place in the world and whom they can offer what they can offer in return for the 6 figure salaries they think they deserve.

ClassicRockerDad

My conclusion from all of these statistics:

If you're average, don't become a scientist.

If you're a scientist, don't be average.

For those of you well above average, science can be very rewarding.

Don't let the naysayers keep you from what you love.

musicguru5

SSchoe2, I am happy that you consider yourself "almost" an expert on the scientific job market. I would believe that you are an expert in your own circumstances, in your own little corner of the science world. But saying there are no jobs for any scientists anywhere is patently false, and worse, tiresome.

For comparison, I applied to a handful of jobs when I stumbled across them over the last few months of finishing my degree (since I've been mainly focused on, well, finishing my degree). I received 2 interviews, and 2 offers, and picked the one that best suited me.

As for the academic job market, is it incredibly competitive? Of course. So is Harvard. But do we complain about the overproduction of successful high school students who have led to a glut of competition at Harvard, then apply over and over again to Harvard for years until leaving idea of college entirely to go spam internet boards? Obviously not - people might apply to Harvard, but they also have some other options that make them happy (or they might not apply to Harvard at all, because some lesser-known options are a better fit).

Just because someone didn't get into Harvard, doesn't mean they shouldn't go to college. Just because someone didn't get a tenure-track academic job, doesn't mean they shouldn't go into science.

I know, I know - you probably applied to 3759 non-academic jobs, and got one of them by the skin of your teeth, which you could lose at any moment. Maybe YOUR little slice of the science world is in terrible shape. (One could come up with some alternative hypotheses here...) But please stop trying to speak for the rest of us. My own little slice, earth science, is thriving.

sschoe2

I am not saying there are no jobs for scientists anywhere. I am saying in the US there are increasingly few jobs for scientists relative to the number of highly trained scientists and as a result there is much higher than average unemployment and also as a result companies are getting away with treating them like dirt such as paying them $15 an hour and not providing benefits and making them work under a contract agency to shield themselves from employer laws.

If you disagree then make an argument don't distort what I've said to sound ridiculous because you are unable.

sschoe2

BTW Musicguru it isn't thread hijacking just because you don't like my answer to the question posed by the OP. Thread hijacking is completely altering the topic of a thread not engaging in a discussion on topic.