Why All-Women's Schools? - Page 12

arianneag · 04-29-2006, 02:57 PM

"Arrianeag..another bright Smithie who can see through the cloud of dust put forth by other posters. Cellardweller's comment was very misleading, and quite a no-brainer if you ask me. I think he/she might be running out of rants about Smith?? My D is in the same boat as you; picked Smith over applying to an IVY. Her friend on the other hand was admitted to Yale, and still choose Smith. "

Well, actually, I'm not a Smithie. I'm still a junior in high school, but Smith is, as of now, my 1st choice.

BJM8 · 04-29-2006, 02:57 PM

And the wait at Sylvester's is too long; even if the food is wonderful!

BJM8 · 04-29-2006, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Well, actually, I'm not a Smithie. I'm still a junior in high school, but Smith is, as of now, my 1st choice.

Well...even more kudos to you! Let me ask you as a high school junior...Why an all-women's school?

IRvirtuoso · 04-29-2006, 03:11 PM

Please, do not demean those of us who choose to go to women's colleges by saying they are an alternative to those who could not gain admission into the ivies. This fact could not be farther from the truth. Many of us who have chosen to go to Wellesley, Smith, and other women's colleges turn down merit scholarships from places like Johns Hopkins and Tufts, offers of admission from Ivy League schools like Columbia, Cornell, and Yale, and top LAC's like Williams and Amherst. Why? Because for once in our lives we want to be given the same amount of attention that men have recieved all their lives. Example: how many people show up to support your high school girl's basketball team? Now, compare that to the number of people that show up to support the boys. The same goes (whether you notice it or not) with academics. There is a very observable difference between women who have graduated from elite all women's colleges and those who have graduated from other prestigious institutions; a confidence and leaderships ability that co-ed institutions do not provide in the same way. (See: list of female CEO's of Fortune 500 Companies). Many of us pass up oppurtunities to attend top universities and co-ed LAC's to experience the completley unique education that only a women's college can provide.

BJM8 · 04-29-2006, 03:19 PM

IRvirtuoso...where have you been all this thread? Great post!

Quote:

Because for once in our lives we want to be given the same amount of attention that men have recieved all their lives. Example: how many people show up to support your high school girl's basketball team? Now, compare that to the number of people that show up to support the boys. The same goes (whether you notice it or not) with academics.

I have posted many times, especially in the beginning of this thread, about the inequality of the educational system. The facts do not lie, and it is reassuring to hear from someone who has witnessed it first-hand.

Quote:

There is a very observable difference between women who have graduated from elite all women's colleges and those who have graduated from other prestigious institutions; a confidence and leaderships ability that co-ed institutions do not provide in the same way.

Because these schools are designed for women, focused on women, and provide leadership for women ONLY!! There has to be a difference.

xiggi · 04-29-2006, 04:42 PM

"Well, actually, I'm not a Smithie. I'm still a junior in high school, but Smith is, as of now, my 1st choice."

Given the huge historical advantage in admission rates for ED at Smith, will you apply ED if it is your first choice?

arianneag · 04-29-2006, 05:17 PM

As for whether or not I will apply ED, that depends on whether or not I like any other the other schools I'm planning on visiting. I still hope to see the Claremonts, the Bryn Mawr/Swarthmore/Haverford area, and some UCs (I'm from California, very close to the UC Berkeley campus. My mom is a professor at Berkeley and used to work for Carol Christ, but that's another story). On paper, however, Smith is probably my first choice. We'll see. There's also the SAT goof issue ---- i.e. Due to registration issues, I'm probably not going to take the SAT reasoning test until the beginning of next school year. If I goof on the SAT then, I'll have to retake it even later, in which case it will be too late to apply ED. Grrrrr. Furthermore, if I apply ED and get in, I'm worried that I'll feel bad about it. Applying to many schools and getting in to more schools means that I'll be forced to look even more carefully (more overnights, attending more classes, etc.). Somehow that will make me feel more comfy with my choice. Dunno. Any suggestions?

As for the previous question of "why an all women's school?", I'm struggling with the same question. I've attended coed schools since preschool, and I've honestly felt happy about my experiences. However, I feel like something can be gained by spending several years in a single sex environment. Will I participate more in class? Will I gain self-confidence? Will I feel more comfortable socially? I don't know. I have a feeling the answer is "yes" to at least some of the questions, but how will I ever settle the question without trying? Hopefully 4 good years at a women's school will supplement 13+ good years at coed schools. If I don't like it...well, at least I've learned a lesson.

BJM8 · 04-29-2006, 07:31 PM

Quote:

However, I feel like something can be gained by spending several years in a single sex environment. Will I participate more in class? Will I gain self-confidence? Will I feel more comfortable socially? I don't know. I have a feeling the answer is "yes" to at least some of the questions, but how will I ever settle the question without trying?

Arianneag...I must congratulate you and your parents, as you sound like a very mature young lady. I'm sure you read many of the previous posts leading up to this point, and there is much research provided that supports exactly how you feel about all-women's schools. They do support women in ways that coed schools do not; after all, they are formed to educate young women such as yourself. Is that an advantage? To those who choose to attend these schools, I believe it is. Something can and will be gained by attending a single-sex school, and you mentioned some of them above in your quote. I really am interested in the Carol Christ story though??

theothermuse · 04-29-2006, 07:58 PM

I, like arianneag, am a current junior whose first choice is Smith. BJM8 asked why she'd choose an all-women's school and while I'm not arianneag, here's my take.

I didn't start out thinking that I wanted to go to an all-women's school but the prospect never bothered me; in eighth grade, my parents considered sending me to the local private all-girl's Catholic school and I was delighted that they'd spend so much money to give me a good education when our local public school is the top school in the area. I figured that I'd get my life in order first before worrying about the guys. When I first began looking at colleges, my top choices has been (not all at once

) Stanford, Tufts, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, and Smith.

The main reason why I'd like to attend Smith is that the girls WANT to be there. Many of my peers would never dream of going to an all-women's college because "that doesn't sound like fun." I figured that those who do attend do so because of the intense academics and the focus on educating a woman. At the college level, it's difficult for a parent to pick a college because it's a good school and force their child to go there like it is possible with high school. Most of all, it seems that most of the Smithies WANT to be there and care about learning rather than seeing eduaction as a means to make lots of money. The statistics that show that most seek to fulfill the requirements for Latin Honors despite the school having but one graduation requirement also tells me that most girls aren't so specialized that they don't have breadth in their education. Yes, that is the point of a liberal arts education but something's just that much more special when people knowingly go after it themselves without having anyone hold a gun to their head. The daughters of the posters here sound exactly like the people that I would hang out with; if there are 2500 other smart, young women like that to go to school with, why not? It creates a unique academic environment that I love. I'm not saying that that can't be found elsewhere, but it's just one of the biggest things I noticed about Smith.

I'm not sure if I wanted to go to an all-women's school as much as I found my dream school and it happened to be all women. Of course, when people ask why I would go to an all-women's school, I jokingly reply that I can party at Amherst and come home and still find all the toilet seats down.

roadlesstraveled · 04-29-2006, 08:13 PM

I jokingly reply that I can party at Amherst and come home and still find all the toilet seats down.]]

Boy, next years applicants certainly are going to be a very bright bunch.

LOL--Thats a great line.

And you can let them trash their dorms and rooms, not yours.

BJM8 · 04-29-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

I figured that I'd get my life in order first before worrying about the guys.

WOW!!!! Now, that's a bit mature for a H.S. junior. Good for you.

Quote:

The daughters of the posters here sound exactly like the people that I would hang out with; if there are 2500 other smart, young women like that to go to school with, why not? It creates a unique academic environment that I love. I'm not saying that that can't be found elsewhere, but it's just one of the biggest things I noticed about Smith.

Theothermuse and arianneag are inspirations for us all, gives us hope for the younger generation. This level of the thought process and maturity simply moves me (do I sound like Paula Abdul?) If Smith is lucky enough to grab the two of you, they will be the better for it. I can't wait to welcome you to Smith next year!

BJM8 · 04-29-2006, 09:18 PM

NATIONAL CENTER FOR EDUCATION STATISTICS
U.S. Department of Education
Office of Educational Research and Improvement NCES 97-982
Findings from
THE CONDITION OF EDUCATION 1997
regarding Women in Math and Sciences

Here are some excerpts from this important study done in 1997. I have been introducing many of these findings throughout this thread: I think it speaks volumes as to why women's colleges are both necessary and valuable for the young women who choose to attend these institutions, as well as taking a hard look at the inequities that do exist in middle and secondary schools. Enjoy:

Quote:

Research studies suggest that many factors contribute to the attitudes,access, and achievement of young women in mathematics
and science: encouragement from parents, preparation of mathematics
and science teachers, interactions between teachers and students, curriculum content, hands-on laboratory experiences,
self-concept, attitudes toward mathematics, high school achievement
in mathematics and science, availability of mentors, and
resources available at home.3 This essay reviews the most current
data on women’s progress in mathematics and science achievement,
attitudes, course-taking patterns, and college majors. The
final section summarizes earnings differences between women
and men who majored in mathematics and science in college.

* A gender gap in science proficiency scores begins to appear at age 13.
* Men score higher than women on the SAT mathematics and science
Achievement Tests, as well as on the mathematics and science Advanced
Placement (AP) examinations.
* Data from the late 1980s and early 1990s indicate that 7th- and 10th
grade boys and girls are equally likely to say that they enjoy mathematics
and science. Among 12th-graders,however, a gender gap emerges in
science.
* A gap in the career aspirations of boys and girls in science or engineering
exists as early as eighth grade.
* While male and female high school seniors are equally likely to expect a
career in science or mathematics, male seniors are much more likely than
their female counterparts to expect a career in engineering.
* Male first-time college freshmen were more likely to choose engineering as
an intended field of study, while female first-time freshmen were more likely
to choose professional fields, education, and social sciences.
* At the postsecondary level, women are less likely than men to earn a
degree in mathematics, physical sciences, and computer sciences and
engineering. The exception is in life sciences degrees.
* The salary differential between women and men in comparable scientific
jobs is still evident.
* a gender gap still exists with respect to mathematics and science, and it
widens as students climb the education ladder.
* Even though women make up about half of the labor market, they are both
underrepresented in jobs in scientific fields and are paid less than men.
Some of these differences can be explained by differences in the field
chosen, level of experience, and level of education. Overall, there are still
substantial differences between women and men in mathematics and
science fields, and these differences appear as early as middle school.

BJM8 · 04-29-2006, 09:42 PM

Women's Colleges and Student Satisfaction
Paper and Discussion
http://www.ed.gov/pubs/WomensColleges/chap2fin.html

Quote:

Emily Langdon presented her paper "Who Attends a Women's College Today and Why She Should: An Exploration of Women's College Students and Alumnae." In her paper, Langdon analyzed two sets of data collected by the Cooperative Institutional Research Program (CIRP). She found women students satisfied with their classroom experiences, the facilities, services, and the climate at women's colleges more than women who attended comparable coeducational institutions. This satisfaction was not only present at graduation, but also five years later. Langdon noted that women who attended women's colleges had different reasons for attending college in the first place when compared to their peers at coeducational institutions. Women who chose women's colleges stated that they did so because they wanted to be a more cultured person or because a role model encouraged them to go on to higher education. Langdon interpreted these responses as evidence of a more "holistic" view, a look at the long-term effects of attending college, a consideration for the special atmosphere of a women's college. Langdon concluded by summarizing that the data she saw on women who attended women's colleges indicated that they would attend a women's college again if they were making the choice today.

There was discussion about assessment of student achievement in higher education in relation to student background, and how some researchers have dismissed successful educational outcomes at women's colleges as being related to the socioeconomic backgrounds of the women attending these institutions. Participants raised concerns about these perceptions of student achievement at women's colleges, and noted that researchers generally do not discount positive results at prestigious coeducational institutions because these schools attract students with higher socioeconomic backgrounds. Participants wondered why women's colleges were being judged differently in this regard.

Participants also raised concerns that women of nontraditional age were often ignored in research on women at women's colleges. One participant asked if, when considering issues such as student satisfaction, researchers have looked at different age groups. In her work she has found that only twenty-five women's colleges have a student population of 80 percent or over of traditional-age student population. Women of nontraditional age at women's colleges are a minority, but a significant minority. The research on these women is qualitative, usually involving stories of changes in their lives through their experiences at women's colleges. Participants discussed how there could be further research on these women, perhaps through the gathering of statistics.

Langdon reported that her statistical study had been based on women of traditional student age. But in reviewing literature and studying the institutions, she had found that women's colleges are leaders in responding to the needs of women re-entering higher education. She concedes that the database she used in her research, CIRP, is focused on the traditional-aged student. The surveying takes place during orientation, and since a lot of nontraditionally-aged students do not go to orientation, they do not get surveyed. CIRP does not include women who attend "weekend college" programs. Langdon concluded that researchers are missing a large group of women.

One participant discussed the issue of lifelong learning by pointing out that some women's colleges have expanded the career planning office into things such as a "lifetimes" center, providing services to alumnae. There was agreement that in the areas of career planning and alumnae services there are various ways women's colleges have been responsive to the needs of women graduates over their lifetimes.

It appears that women are nor being treated fairly and equally at coed colleges as well. Not because the institution purposefully neglects women, (I know of none that would purposely do that) but because they do not have the same knowledge of how women learn as all-women's colleges. Women who were satisfied with their education at women's colleges were also concerned with issues such as faculty diversity and books by women included in the curriculum. Increasing faculty diversity and increasing the visibility of women in the curriculum are ways coeducational institutions can better serve their female students.
The third paragraph of this introduction struck me vividly, as Smith has a great ADA program for just those types of women. A very important aspect of that community.

arianneag · 04-29-2006, 10:03 PM

Theothermuse, it's awesome that we're in a similar situation. I happen to agree with a lot of the things you said about Smith. I did get a very strong sense of enthusiasm among the student body. I remember my tour guide said that she spend time studying abroad in Easter Europe to hear the "other side of the story" about communism in the Cold War. I was amazed by her genuine concern for the accuracy of what's she is being taught ---- that's NOT something you'll find at very many other schools.

Another point: Coming from the West Coast, people always warn us about East Coast intellectual "snobbiness". As a consequence, I had some negative expectations about Smith and other schools on the East. However, when I visited, I did not get any sense of "snobbiness" at Smith at all. I felt very welcome there. In fact, the first student I talked to was a friendly girl at the admissions office who was VERY excited to find out that I came from the Bay Area. On top of that, three different students came right into the office and starting talking to me on the couch. I never could have asked for a more pleasant and welcoming first impression of the campus. And BJM8, thanks for making me feel even more welcome!

If you had asked me 5 years ago, I would never have considered a women's college. This is largely because of the fact that my aunt hated Wellesley. However, after talking to a girl who's at Wellesley and LOVES it there, I figured that times have changed and decided to be more open-minded. I threw in some women's colleges with the coed bunch on my "research" list, and sure enough I became interested in Smith. Now it's my 1st choice.

BJM8 · 04-29-2006, 10:04 PM

For Cellardweller:

Quote:

When was the period "back in that day" that MIT treated women so poorly, that you refer to? You may not know that MIT always was coed while the Ivies happily rejected every female applicant.

Since you asked, I got the answer from your own alma mater. In 1999, as I'm sure you know, MIT did a self-study on the Status of Women Faculty in Sciences at MIT. Here are some excerpts from MIT:

Quote:

In 1995 the Dean of Science established a Committee to analyze the status of women faculty in the six departments in the School of Science. The Committee submitted a report of its findings in August, 1996 and amended reports in 1997 and 1998. The Committee discovered that junior women faculty feel well supported within their departments and most do not believe that gender bias will impact their careers. Junior women faculty believe, however, that family-work conflicts may impact their careers differently from those of their male colleagues. In contrast to junior women, many tenured women faculty feel marginalized and excluded from a significant role in their departments. Marginalization increases as women progress through their careers at MIT. Examination of data revealed that marginalization was often accompanied by differences in salary, space, awards, resources, and response to outside offers between men and women faculty with women receiving less despite professional accomplishments equal to those of their male colleagues. An important finding was that this pattern repeats itself in successive generations of women faculty. The Committee found that, as of 1994, the percent of women faculty in the School of Science (8%) had not changed significantly for at least 10 and probably 20 years.

Now I don't know as much about MIT as you, but I do know that this would not exist at Smith or any other all-women's college. To MIT's credit, they have established a committee of women faculty in the dept. of sciences, and have made progress.

Quote:

In the summer of 1994, three tenured women faculty in the School of Science began to discuss the quality of their professional lives at MIT. In the course of their careers these women had come to realize that gender had probably caused their professional lives to differ significantly from those of their male colleagues. Interestingly, they had never discussed the issue with one another and they were even uncertain as to whether their experiences were unique, their perceptions accurate. This situation was about to change dramatically. It was soon clear to the women that their experiences formed a pattern. Curious to know whether other women in the School of Science shared these experiences, they drew up a list of all the tenured women faculty in the School of Science in order to conduct an informal poll.

The three women faculty were surprised to discover how easy the polling would be. This was because in the summer of 1994, there were only 15 tenured women faculty in the six departments of the School of Science, vs 194 men. These numbers had remained essentially unchanged for 10-20 years.

Quote:

"This proposal has been developed by the tenured women faculty in the School of Science. It speaks to our serious concerns about the small number of women professors at MIT, and about the status and treatment of the women who are here. We believe that unequal treatment of women faculty impairs their ability to perform as educators, leaders in research, and models for women students...

Quote:

We believe that unequal treatment of women who come to MIT makes it more difficult for them to succeed, causes them to be accorded less recognition when they do, and contributes so substantially to a poor quality of life that these women can actually become negative role models for younger women...

So, that's where I got the information. Any more questions?