The insider's guide to Smith? Ups and downs - Page 2

QuasiProfound · 08-20-2009, 07:04 AM

I'm wondering about the social interaction between Smith and the others in the Five College Consortium. Can anyone fill me in?

Momwaitingfornew · 08-20-2009, 08:25 AM

Upbeat, I'm not sure chemistry is really a "weeder major." Last year, organic chem 2 was taught by a new professor, and, for various reasons, the course became one of the most difficult courses to do well in. That will most likely change as the prof gets more experience, although, of course, the material will always be difficult. Cell bio (not to be confused with Intro to Bio) is another tough course in the sciences.

Organic chemistry and cell bio are traditionally the courses (in all colleges) that weed out weaker pre-med students, just as physics and certain math classes do the same for engineers. Unfortunately, the students with other goals in mind have to take those classes as well.

Smith is MUCH better than other schools when it comes to "weeder" courses. I've known bright students at other universities who are lucky to get Cs in organic chem, intro to bio, calculus, and physics even though they will get much higher grades in advanced courses. That says a lot that the intro courses are tougher than the upper level ones. In general, Smith professors do not intentionally beat the students down or make the exams impossibly difficult just to make a point or to separate the girls from the women. Most difficult courses at Smith are difficult because the material is demanding, not because the professor makes it harder than it should be.

SmithieandProud · 08-20-2009, 09:37 AM

Muff, I wouldn't say that it's hard to get a job if you're not on financial aid. I didn't have work study, but I worked every semester. It is annoying (and true) that you have to wait until October 1st to apply for on-campus jobs if you do NOT have workstudy, and then spring semester you have to wait until after the first week of the semester, but in my experience work is pretty readily available. I also had a few jobs in town during my time.

Studio art is a great major, but it can be oversubscribed and hard to get into. Still, everyone I know who was a studio art major/minor had a positive experience.

As for English, i wouldn't say that the creative writing courses are poor. I would say however that the English department at Smith is a straight English department, and not everyone is prepared for that when they come in. It's English literature and theory, and if you want to major in creative writing, you've come to the wrong college. But the creative writing courses that are offered are of pretty good caliber, and many of the English teachers are themselves published novelists. The problem is that there are 300-level creative writing seminars that aren't easy to get into, and there are 200 level creative writing colloquia that aren't always that challenging (they contain people at varying levels of ability. Very varying.).

I agree though when you say that Smith is NOT convenient to a big city. Students should NOT come thinking they're going to get to go to Boston or New York every week or even every month. If you get to Boston once or twice a semester, I would consider that a triumph of timing.

muff · 08-20-2009, 03:57 PM

Yes, I did take orgo 2, which demoralized a lot of people. This was mostly due to having a new professor. However, I have also talked to people who have taken other chemistry courses who have had similar harsh experiences. I think a lot of it depends on the particular professor; I liked my first 2 semesters of chem and the professors who taught them, so much so that I considered majoring in chem. Furthermore, I'm rather under the impression that peoples' experiences with general chem 2 (4th part of the chem sequence) largely based on their professor and whether they liked the professor's teaching style. Lab courses can be rather hit-or-miss, as well. The bottom line of what I'm trying to say is that chem is a very difficult major at Smith, and it's not uncommon to hear about ppl taking chem at another college over the summer because it's easier (same with cell bio). It's not an especially large major either, so those who do choose it I'm sure are quite dedicated to it. However, If you love chem, and you want a more intimate experience learning it, then Smith is a good place to study it. And take advantage of the chem tudors! They're a god-send.

Yeah, the biggest complaint I hear about studio art is that some classes (e.g. drawing) are overenrolled and that it's very hard to take any other studio art classes without these overenrolled prerequisite classes. I've also heard that the studio art major has been hurt hard by the faculty non-rehirings and cutbacks, which may explain why some of the classes are overenrolled.

I couldn't find a job without financial aid, at least not one that I was eligible for. It seemed like there was hardly anything available after the necessary date, but maybe I haven't been looking at the right places. Actually, my friend, who is on financial aid, struggled to find a job, too. I think it can be a hit-or-miss thing, depending on your schedule and resume. SmithieAndProud, I think it's awesome that you found jobs.

I haven't taken a creative writing course, so it could very well be that the classes that are offered are quite good. The problem is that many people think that Smith should have a strong selection of CW classes, considering that it's a LAC. If CW is you're number one priority in college, you shouldn't come to Smith. If you want to take one or two CW classes on the side, Smith has them, but they may be hard to get into. It's just something to be aware of when you come here.

Momwaitingfornew · 08-20-2009, 04:28 PM

If you want to major/minor in creative writing, do not attend Smith. My D almost decided not to go there because of the relative weakness in this area. She did end up taking two writing courses and enjoyed them both. They are competitive to get into, however; you must be chosen based on submitted writing samples.

Both Amherst and UMass offer writing courses, and I'm sure Hampshire must as well. UMass has a good MFA program in creative writing, which means that they have offerings for undergrads.

SmithieandProud · 08-20-2009, 04:30 PM

I can believe that art was hit hard by the cutbacks, and yes, the pre-reqs tend to be heavily enrolled. Once you get to the upper level classes people tend to be thinned out, but you have to get through Drawing I and Photo I before you can move ahead.

And finding jobs really do depend a lot on your schedule, and also what you're willing to do. I was not a science major so I had the luxury of not having to work around labs. Still though, I find if you're open to any kind of work and you look hard enough, there are jobs to be had. It helps if you join a clubs like Gold Key or the newspaper, I got a lot of my jobs or at least heard about them through orgs I belonged to.

And I agree, if you want straight creative writing, you're not in the right college. If you want a solid grounding in English (or American, comparative, whatever) literature and literary theory (which some would argue is the best prep for a writer) then you've come to the right place.

upbeat · 08-20-2009, 05:40 PM

Thanks, Muff and MwaitingforN! All very helpful info. D will be taking Cell Bio her first semester, but she is well prepared and perhaps I can help with distance teaching! Will make sure that she has some exposure to orgo chem during her breaks. I loved orgo 30 years ago!

luvdogs · 08-20-2009, 06:26 PM

Can anyone recommend some easier classes to take at Smith? In the fall I'll be taking Chem 111, Calc I, and FYS Reacting to the Past. I was thinking about taking Sociology 101 with Professor Adel or Intro to Psychology with Professor Wraga. Any thoughts?

SmithieandProud · 08-20-2009, 08:10 PM

Definitely not either of those courses. I would actually look at 200 level courses often those are a little easier and more enjoyable than intro courses because they're more focused in scope, instead of trying to give you a wide survey of base knowledge to help you on your way to majoriing in that disicipline. I would also suggest going through the catalog and looking for any course that's listed as a course for non-majors. Those will be the accessible courses that are interesting but not too time consuming.

luvdogs · 08-20-2009, 09:53 PM

I'm just curious, why not either of those courses? I'm not really sure what I want to major in yet, so I thought taking a few intro level courses would be help me get a better understanding of where my interests lie. Thanks you for the helpful advice!

SmithieandProud · 08-20-2009, 10:08 PM

Well,if your goal is to explore subjects to get an idea of what you might like to major in, then by all means you will enjoy those courses. But if you're looking for easy courses that will bring balance to a heavy schedule, neither of those are what I would choose. Intro psych I'm pretty sure has a lab attached doesn't it? And both will be larger courses with quite a bit of reading and several papers. Both are great courses,I've heard good things about sociology in particular, but just think about bringing balance to your life for personal sanity's sake. That's what's nice about the courses offered for non majors, they give you a taste without driving you to the psych ward.

But,you know, if you feel like these classes are calling to you, go and visit them during the add drop period. As lectures they won't have caps so you can go,try out the prof, get a look at the syllabus, and still be able to drop them if they don't seem what you want.

muff · 08-21-2009, 03:05 AM

Upbeat, I wish your D good luck!

Luvdogs, that's a tough question. As SmithAndProud said, a smaller 200-level course would likely be a more fun class that would balance out a rigorous schedule --- that may be the way to go, instead of taking an intro class.

Also, people make many rather spontaneous decisions while signing up for classes their first semester. Things can get very unpredictable --- classes you want to take get filled up, scheduling conflicts arise, etc. You definitely want to keep your possibilities open.

Momwaitingfornew · 08-21-2009, 08:26 AM

According to my daughter, neither Calc I nor Intro to Psych are tough courses. Calculus has the daily problem sets which take time, of course, and the quality of the course depends on the prof. As for psychology, my D said that she found it easy compared to hard science courses, although it is filled with potential psych majors who discover through the course that they aren't interested in the subject after all. But she didn't find Intro to Psych demanding, and she likes Prof. Wraga. Now, that's one student's opinion, and her strengths aren't necessarily yours.

Chem 111 is probably the toughest course of the lot, although I don't know anything about your FYS except that students love it.

I wouldn't shy away from Intro to Psych. You could also go for an English course, if you like literature. Or Intro to Film, if you can get in. Instead of thinking "easy," think "different." You want that fourth class to round out your schedule and to give you a break from the kind of thinking you have to do in the other classes. You're right that you should explore a variety of fields to both widen your knowledge base and to inform you when choosing a major.

felicitywut · 08-21-2009, 08:35 PM

Are there a couple good courses dealing with poetry/writing poetry?

SmithieandProud · 08-21-2009, 11:12 PM

I really enjoyed my reading and writing short poems class, but you don't have to try out to get in, so there was definitely a mix of talent. Still, it got me my writing intensive credit and I got to write and read poetry in a wide variety of styles.

I don't know much about the upper level poetry writing courses (if, indeed, there are any), but being an English major neccessitates a great deal of poetry study obviously. Besides your elective courses Milton is required and you can study everything from the early epics to the moderns.

Biggest pieces of advice if you like poetry are A) take a class with Annie boutelle, besides being a great poet, she is a terrific teacher and a hilarious scotswoman. And B) make the effort to attend the monthly readings given by professional poets brought to campus by the smith poetry center. It's a gift to get to hear from so many working poets for free and the day before their public reading they usually do private q and a's at the poetry center for students and interested parties. They may not be poets you've heard of but they are often noteable in the poetry world and talking and hearing from them is a great way to build your skills