angel88

Does it matter whether i take Chem 33 winter quarter with ex-31x people or chem 33 in spring with Chem31A people?

also

does anyone suggest math51A (with the extra unit and office hours)

superwizard

So I've actually heard that its better to take Chem33 in spring quarter than in winter but I'm still taking it in winter cuz I haven't taken any science so far this year and I want to take some before spring. I heard the spring teacher is better and that its easier to get higher marks but I can't tell you from my personal experience.

celestial605

It looks like Chem 33 is being taught by Stack and Kohler in Winter and Wender in Spring. I have had both Stack and Kohler before; I think they are very clear lecturers, and they are good enough to keep me awake 90% of the time. I have never had Wender.

As for the curves and when it's easier, my guess would be that it would be easier with Chem31A people because they are less likely to be premed/engineering/etc. I don't have data on this.

staticsoliloquy

It's true. It's a lot easier and Wender drops your lowest test. In fact, Wender designs the class to help you get a better grade. But that's not the reason why you went to college, is it? My friends who took 33 in the spring got solid A. Granted, I didn't get a solid A in 33 when I took it in the winter, but in the end, it comes down to you. Did you come to college to prepare for medical school? Or Did you come to college to learn and be challenged? I'm not saying that both are exclusive.

jwj

Also, taking 33 in winter, simply because of the challenge, will prepare you far better for 35 than taking 33 in spring, IMO. And 33 is definitely doable in winter. Yes, it's a pain in the ass to walk/bike/fly/whatever through the rain to get to office hours and section, but it's definitely doable. Unless you live in Serra, in which case you can just visit the resident chem major. :-P

Oh, and a huge piece of advice: get Klein's Organic Chemistry as a Second Language, 1st Semester. AND READ IT RELIGIOUSLY. It will seriously be your lifesaver in the course.

And consider not buying the stupid Vollhardt and Schore book and just going to Swain if you really need to look at it, because honestly, the authors of that textbook don't use it in their own classes. That should tell you something of the sad quality of the book. Its explanations suck, and the only reason it's minorly useful are for its practice problems, and even then, the types of problems in the text don't really reflect the type that's given on the exams. During the first/second week of the course, go to Swain library (across from Mudd) and see for yourself--check out and read both the Vollhardt book and the McMurry book on reserve; McMurry's book is far superior.

A note about molecule kits: the ones that come pre-packaged in with the book are pretty crappy quality, and they're small, annoying, and difficult to work with. So go ahead, spend the extra $50, and get a molecule set that'll actually help you. MolyMod kit--available in Stanford Bookstore, on the first floor, in the back bookshelves in the chemistry section.

Wow, that was a heck of a lot...hope this helps you chem 33 folks...

superwizard

Wow thanks for all the info jwj!
I was just about to buy the Schore book online! Now in retrospect I'm going to wait. I'm also going to buy the MolyMod kit. You came just in time!

jwj

Haha, glad I saved someone from boosting Dr. Vollhardt's salary. He drives a Ferrari already, for goodness' sake. Oh, and people have noticed that, oddly enough, the times when he buys a new Ferrari correspond closely with the times when he and his buddy Schore release a new edition of their book... :-P

Anywho, yeah, get the MolyMod kit, it's far easier to work with than the kit the book comes with, and it's actually a lot better for visualizing molecule structure.

A few other thoughts on Chem 33:
Professor Stack has often taken a bit too long to teach his half of the course, sucking up an extra two weeks or so that he really doesn't need. Last year, Professor Kool was forced to cram everything in the last 2-3 weeks of the course, and we were learning new stuff in the review session. Insane, right? Yeah. Hopefully, Professor Kohler (really nice, young, relatively new to the department, and my academic advisor) won't have to resort to that, but just keep in mind that the pace of the course will likely accelerate after Professor Stack's portion.

GO TO OFFICE HOURS RELIGIOUSLY: Seriously, you wouldn't believe how much clearer the course material becomes after going for an hour and talking things out with your classmates/TAs/profs.

PRACTICE LIKE A MADMAN/MADWOMAN: Practice won't make perfect, but the more practice problems you do the better. And look through the book problems in both Vollhardt and McMurry. Oftentimes the profs will take questions almost directly out of the texts, so you'll have an edge.

VISUALIZATION IS KEY: Use your molecule kit extensively. First off, the profs let you use it on the tests, so you want to be familiar with making molecules quickly. Second, it helps you get a feel for the different sizes of atoms/molecules and the different spacings let you get an idea of where reactions can happen, which is basic knowledge needed for the entire organic chem series.

Hmm...yeah, that's it for now, I'll post more later if I think of it.

superwizard

Hehehe less money for the Cal professor yes!

Ouch that's going to be tough. I have a problem with asking for help especially in chemistry (I've never had to ask for help in chemistry-yes I know I have an ego problem). I'll try working on that.

jwj

Haha, you have an ego problem, eh? Don't we all at some point? Most of us are at Stanford for a reason. :-) Just think of it as, oh, iunno, going to help your classmates cuz you're that awesome. I mean, if you're in your TA's office hours and there are several of you, obviously he/she can't help all you guys at the same time, so you'll be working with your classmates as much as or more than with your TA. Answer other people's questions while you're waiting, and see how much you really know. I've gone to office hours without a single question of my own and used other people's questions to test myself--can I answer what they're asking? Once I can do that, I know I'm doing pretty good.

And believe me, when you're covering half or more of a chapter a day, which sometimes happens, you'll want help. Working by yourself only gets you so far, and too many people realize this way too late.

Oh, and I thought of one more piece of advice: when you enter the course the profs will tell you that you should focus on learning basic concepts and applying them to harder problems. Riiight. Just memorize the crap outta everything you can, cuz honestly, in 33 you really haven't learned enough to be able to apply concepts in the first place. Trust me on this one: until you really get a solid idea of the basics, just memorize. It'll make your life easier.

superwizard

Well when you put it that way...

Ahh bummer. I hate memorizing especially science because I so much prefer understanding concepts. Oh well memorize it is.

celestial605

Memorizing will make it easier for you to see trends later =]

superwizard

^I'll take your word for it

calikent

I really have trouble memorizing things too...

jwj

Make flash cards, write the reactions down a gajillion times, do what you have to, but even the TAs will tell you in the end: just memorize it. For most people there simply isn't enough time to get a proper feel of the reactions--it takes a hell of a lot of practice. In the beginning few weeks you do have to focus on concepts such as atom size/arrangement, but in the last part of the course when they teach you reactions, just memorize like there's no tomorrow.

superwizard

Thanks for all the info jwj!
I'll try to beat my ego down even more (I always held that memorizing chmemistry was for people not as smart as me in chem-yes I know I know I have a mega chemistry ego problem lol)