epistrophy

At the suggestion of another poster, I'm starting this thread to invite further discussion of the particular qualities that distinguish these schools from one another. Obviously, just as the Ivies aren't all the same, and all the big state schools aren't the same, the small LACs aren't all the same, either.

To pick up on what's been said on this topic so far, start at Post #22 in the Admissions Video thread.

Any other thoughts? Observations? Experiences?

achat

This has been discussed to a great great extent in the past. Here are some forum archives:
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/d...s/5/64692.html
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/d...s/5/87733.html
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/d...s/5/76907.html
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/d...s/5/62168.html

achat

Here is more:
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/d...s/5/64692.html
What's the diff b/w Amherst, Swarthmore, and Williams?

In the last one, there is a great post by Mini on what the 3 LACs are good at (see post #12). The last one is indeed very good at highlighting the differences academically.

bowtoserenity

Thanks, achat

interesteddad

Mini's summary is quite good. As far as academic strengths, I'm not sure he quite communicated Swarthmore's strengths in the social sciences. Swarthmore produces more future PhD.s in Economics, Political Science, and Social Sciences overall than any other college or university in the country. Economics, Political Science, Bio, and English Lit are consistently the four most popular majors. Econ is always number one, the others swap places year to year -- not really surprising, I expect these are the four "biggies" at many colleges.

Also, it's probably important to point out that Swarthmore has a very rigorous Engineering department that has been around since the late 1800s. They offer an ABET accredited BS degree in Engineering.

Academically, the most unique thing about Swarthmore is its Honors Program. Started shortly after WWI, this program is small seminar-based and requires a Senior Thesis. It concludes with examination (both written and oral) by a panel of three or more outside experts, each covering a different topic of concentration in the major. There is no Honors or Distinction awarded based on grades at Swat; only through this special Honors program. About one-third of the graduates last year received honors.

On study abroad: Mini is probably correct that Swat is not most famous for this. However, that may understate Swat's study abroad programs. About 40% of the students study abroad. The cost of overseas study is included in Swat's tuition; thus all financial aid travels with the student. Swat operates its own programs in France, Ghana, and Poland. It has special relationships with consortium programs in Chile, Sri Lanka, Spain, England, Ireland, Sweden, and South Africa. It has recommended programs in virtually every country in the world.

interesteddad

I believe that the real difference in the top liberal arts colleges have more to do with campus culture than anything else. With that in mind, it is probably instructive to look at two specific housing policies at each of the three schools:

First-year housing:

Swarthmore has no freshmen dorms. Freshmen are placed into regular dorms with upperclass students.

Amherst and Williams have segregated freshmen dorms.

Theme housing and segregation

Swarthmore has no "theme" houses and, in fact, the concept of segregating by any characteristic is vigorously rejected by the students and the campus culture -- dating back to the first year of the college when both male and female students ate together in a common dining hall. The housing lottery is set up to essentially prevent segregation (by race, by athletic team affiliation, etc.) and there is virtually no de facto segregation at Swarthmore.

Amherst has racial and ethnic theme housing. Williams officially does not have theme housing, but there is a high degree of de facto segregation on campus with dorms that have high concentrations of racial or ethnic groups, males or females, athletes or non-athletes. The college is in the midst of an effort to prevent de facto segregation with a new housing policy, but is encountering heavy student resistance.

interesteddad

Another difference is the Student Health Services available on campus:

Swarthmore:
Health Center is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week

Williams:
Health Center is open 8:30 am to 9:00 pm M-F, 1pm-8pm on weekends.

Amherst:
Heath Center is open 8:50 am to 5:30 pm M-F. No evenings, no weekends.

The Williams Health Center used to be open 24/7. This was changed this year, a decision explained as being due to liability coverage issues surrounding the nature and number of health visits they were seeing at night. I believe Amherst's reduced hours are also a fairly recent change, but I don't know the rationale behind the change.

momrath

epistrophy, I think you would get a more balanced view if you would post this question on the Parents board. Or, alternately, try the Williams board for the Eph side of the story.

interesteddad

Momrath:

Feel free to chime in with any corrections.

epistrophy

Momrath:

I think that it's inevitable that if someone has a preference for a particular school - say, Swarthmore - that preference is going to influence in some fashion what he or she has to say when comparing that school to others. But I also think that the views expressed here by interesteddad and others (including those in the archived links provided by achat) have been very informative and helpful for those who, like my son and myself, are relatively new to all this and are trying to find our way when thinking comparatively about these three fine schools. And, yes, in line with your suggestion and in order to obtain a wider range of views, I may well initiate similar threads on the Amherst and Williams boards. At least when you have posts that are as thoughtful as those found here (again, including the archived materials), more is more - right?

janesmith

Another difference is the Swat strongly encourages admissions interviews and Amherst doesn't offer them. (Don't know about Williams.) My impression is that Swat, like many other LACs, is looking for a good "fit."

In the "take it for what it's worth" category, this is what my son (Swat soph) told me that a Swat senior who has done many many admissions interviews told HIM: That they are really interested in the answer to the "why Swat" question. That she can tell from the answer who really knows what makes Swat tick and would be happy and fit in there--as opposed, I guess, to people who are just applying b/c of Swat's ranking in USNews.

So it sounds to me that yes, you can blow your chances at Swat in the interview.

interesteddad

That was the part of the application that the Admissions Director emphasized in a newspaper interview last year.

Curiously, the Williams app was the only one my daughter filled out that did NOT ask a variation of the Why Us? question.

nopoisonivy

My S who received an Early Write letter from Williams ran out of steam in December and refused to do the Swarthmore supplement. I wasn't thrilled with this at the time. From the acceptances that he has received thus far my feelings are that the committees are great at seeing who these kids really are without the "Why this School" question. Amherst and Williams does not do interviews. Could it be that they spend a bit more time on the reading of the applications where some of the bigger Ivies don't have the time? This is in no way a knock on Swarthmore but merely a more comfortable feeling that I get from our interaction with some LACs.

interesteddad

Yes. All of the top LACs are pretty good at sizing up the kids. Just the fact of applying to an LAC says a lot about a kid, so there is automatically a high degree of self-selection in the Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, et al applicant pools.

Having said that, Swarthmore places specific emphasis on the "Why Swat?" essay. From the Admissions Dean's comments, there appear to be two reasons:

a) It makes it easy to separate out the casual applicant from the applicant who has really taken the time to understand something about the unique qualities of the school -- above and beyond the obvious "great academics, pretty campus, near Philly".

b) Swarthmore functions because it has a very specific kind of student body and a degree of student responsibility that allows the college community to be largely self-governing and the academics to be highly student driven. There are few "rules" and the administration takes a hands-off approach. They are looking for a critical mass of kids who will fit this profile and perpetuate the prevailing campus culture. The "Why Swat?" essay is good vehicle for identifying some of those characteristics. The handful of successful "Why Swat?" essays I've read have been very insightful about the school and how the student would fit.

janesmith

Sorry if my previous message was unclear. I was talking about the "Why Swarthmore" question at the interview rather than the supplemental essay in the app--though both are looking for the same thing I guess.

At my son's interview, the interviewer actually preempted his planned answer--"So why are you interested in Swarthmore? Beyond that it's one of the few LACs that offer engineering?"--but he must have improvised something that was acceptable. So I guess the moral is be sure to have a detailed, well thought out answer to that question before the interview.

Quite a few parents on this board and not so many students--I guess we love this school. Looking forward to Parents' Weekend which Swat, unlike everyone else, has in April.