A.E.

I have no idea if you're correct about the divergent paths of Williams vs. Swarthmore graduates or whether that translates to anything at all when it comes to alumni giving. It seems greedy business types might even be less likely to give than generous non-profit types. But, that is all just conjecture, just the same as your point. I think comparing Swarthmore to its peers (the schools listed in the first post) is fair, and there is likely to be some correlation, even if not 100%, to what proportion of the schools' students were satisfied with their undergraduate experience. I am not in any way attributing alumni wealth to academic excellence, but I am agreeing with a previous poster's suggestion that alumni giving rate probably correlates to student satisfaction, in comparing a school to its peers.

interesteddad

Again, since you seem to be the only one who cares, why don't you call the Institution Research Office and see where Swarthmore ranks viz-a-viz the other 30 COFHE schools (which include Amherst and Williams).

Why do I get the sense that you'd rather stick with your internet survey of the ilk, "Who's hotter, Britney or Jessica?" I hear that 40% say Britney's hotter than Jessica.

A.E.

Then why are you still posting in this thread? You can leave; we'll be fine without you, your personal attacks, your surveys with no available data, your inability to actually produce an argument, and your tired jokes.

momuv2

Yikes, maybe you 2 could call a truce -- agree to disagree or something and let's move on. Wanted to reply to the comment above that Swat grads may be more into public service. My S (junior at Swat) has explained that Swat opens many doors, but also CLOSES many others for its students. The culture there discourages careers that are seen as 'capitalistic' (corporate, business, law), which leaves open grad school, teaching, and working for government or NGOs as 'acceptable.' Apparently, it's quite a strong pull when you're there over the course fo 4 years. I thought it was a very interesting perspective.

skunk

Interesteddad, why the personal remarks? why the offended note? why not just let this thread flow and come to a natural conclusion? Every time you post a personal remark, you just bring this thread up.

Btw, I'm an Ed2 applicant and would very much like to go to Swarthmore. Yet, I'm interested in any negative perspective that the OP brings up. I DO NOT want to go to swarthmore expecting perfection.

Anyways, I dont really think these negative perspectives really discourage any prospectives. The no. of applicants just keeps increasing every year.

Corbett

There are also a lot of reasons to switch colleges if you are dissatisfied -- especially if you go to a school like Swarthmore, which makes it convenient to explore possible alternatives through cross-registration at several other highly-ranked schools nearby (Penn, Haverford, Bryn Mawr). Yet Swat still has one of the highest "graduation and retention" ranks around. It's hard to put a negative spin on this fact (though you seem to be trying).

Here are the "Top 10" USN&WR LACs (for 2008), ranked by alumni giving rate:

64 % Carleton
61 % Amherst
58 % Williams
57 % Middlebury
55 % Bowdoin
54 % Davidson
51 % Swarthmore
50 % Wellesley
47 % Pomona
47 % Haverford

Swat's rate is indeed slightly lower than those of Amherst or Williams, but it nonetheless appears to be within the overall "top LAC" range.

FlySwattie

Judging Amherst of Williams by Swarthmorean standards, (the overarching, intensely academic character of the school) seems to be a flawed comparison in the first place. Most of the students who go to Swarthmore realize that its primary focus is academics. However, to tip my hat to A.E., most students do not realize exactly what they are stepping into, but Swarthmore knows they can handle it. It's just a matter of discovery and preference from there.

swatparent

I do think that a lot of Swarthmore grads go into finance and that there is a lot of recruiting for financial institutions on campus. For what it's worth.

Forgetmenots

I'm confused about those alum stats, since - as a student who works for the alumni office - the numbers we get are around 59% alumni donation rate from last year. This year it'll be closer to 61%, we hope. Swat's pretty well known for that. Maybe they're counting a different fiscal year? Hmm.

A.E.

I'm not trying to put a negative spin on it; I'm trying to point out that it doesn't really mean anything regarding overall student satisfaction. The other statistic you brought up, however, more likely does:

Again, Swarthmore comes in below the average. Furthermore, I don't know if it is fair to compare Wellesley, because women are still getting shortchanged in the American workplace, and that could lead to a diminished giving rate.

A.E.

Hey, how can I get Swarthmore to stop sending me junk mail asking me for money? There are other charitable causes that have a higher priority for me than giving money to a college with an endowment in excess of a billion dollars, and the needless waste of time and resources spent sending me these unending requests for money must stop.

icy9ff8

It is interesting to read different points of view about elite schools. Swarthmore is particularly interesting because of its small size, school culture & academic reputation.For an interesting read on Swarthmore from a conservative viewpoint try "Choosing The Right College" an ISI guide 2008-09. This is the sixth edition. For a more explosive read regarding Swarthmore, try to get a copy of the fifth edition which has a 2005 copyright. I have read, in more than one publication, of a cultural division between Swarthmore vs. (for lack of a better term) Haverford & Bryn Mawr in the sense that the latter two do not associate much with the former even though all share cross-registration privileges. Is this accurate? To state the obvious, Swarthmore is not the school for everyone; but it is a beautiful, charming campus and an academic powerhouse of a school. It is small and liberal. Some claim that it may be a bit intolerant of non-liberal perspectives. Once enrolled at a small, intensely academic and very liberal school, a student receiving a substantial amount of financial aid might feel trapped if growth occurs in a, for example, moderate to conservative direction. Same thing occurs at West Point, BYU, Vassar, Grove City College, etc. This can be especially upsetting to young adults who have never lived away from home prior to enrolling in college.

icy9ff8

One point that I hoped to make in the above post, but I ran out of time, is that students have to be particularly careful when considering small colleges with unusually strong cultures, typically ultra conservative or ultra liberal, because matriculation is tantamount to "marrying" into a family with a very defined & strong personality; if you later decide that you don't like it, don't fit or want out, it can be quite unpleasant. Consider a student at Bob Jones University who decides to question and then challenge and then rebel against the conservative religious dogma--it would not be a pretty picture. The same can happen at small colleges on the other end of the spectrum as well.

A.E.

Yes.

I don't know if intolerant is the right word, but I think non-liberals at Swarthmore will feel alienated from mainstream campus culture and political opinion.

swatparent

I think that there is a right to life organization at Swarthmore now, and some other organizations that are considered conservative. Of course, there would be more of these at other schools. Some students may find it to be more of a challenge to be at a school where they are NOT the dominant force. I think that the students at Swarthmore are not generally intolerant of various viewpoints, they probably more would ignore the existence, feeling strongly about their own views.

When PBS televised a student political debate from Swarthmore, they did manage to find Dems, Republicans and Independents.

I think in terms of cross enrollment at Haverford or Bryn Mawr, part of it is distance, but the other schools have complementary course offerings such as some other languages and I do think that there is good transportation between the schools.