interesteddad

I know. You are a very principled, idealistic young man who takes the mythical ideal of academic perfection very seriously.

Ahhh. The real truth comes out. Shoulda gone with the designer brand! I didn't think you would admit that.

I know that you don't want to hear about the COFHE surveys, so I would bore you with the fact that Harvard consistently scores as the bottom of the pack. Ever wonder why Larry Summers told a couple of Harvard students complaining about the faculty that, if they wanted to get to know their professors, they should have gone to Amherst or Swarthmore?

Of course your own college's food is worse than schools you visit! Doh. You don't have eat their same old tired food 365 days a year until you are sick of it. People who eat at Swarthmore a few times think the food is pretty good. BTW, you really cracked me up earlier with your indignation over not hiring a top-rated chef (a chef! a top-rated chef!) to oversee an institutional kitchen serving three squares a day to 1300 kids. A top-chef? What's next? Ice sculptures? I know, maybe they could get Bobby Flay.

A.E.

Okay. Some of these are probably general positive about an elite academic institution and some are more specific to Swarthmore.

1. Very nice campus. With the possible exception of Pepperdine in Malibu, Swarthmore has the nicest campus of any college or university I've seen and, frankly, I've seen too many. The buildings work together very well, with a blend of old and new, neo-gothic and modern (I'm probably biased by a preference of stone to brick). The plantings are well thought out and maintained. Parrish Beach is a great place to hang around. My father has frequent business in Philadelphia and, to this day, he still catches the train out to Swarthmore to sit in an adirondack chair and do his work there.
2. Guest lecturers and speakers. Swarthmore does a good job of getting prominent academics, authors, activists, and so on to come to campus. I have no statistics to show whether it is better than other elite LACs in this regard, but I was satisfied with the variety and amount of these events.
3. Geographic diversity of students. I don't think I'd have learned as much about other parts of the country (or world) than where I was from if I'd gone to a school with substantially less national prestige. This is probably generally the case with top schools. Students simply aren't interested in trekking across the country to go to a regional public university, and such places are far less expensive for locals than they are for out of staters, so you get a lot more geographic and cultural homogeneity at those places. College is a time to broaden your perspectives, and this is a great plus in that regard.
4. High caliber peer group. This is where I think Swarthmore and, more generally, elite colleges really stand out. The students there are all very high quality individuals, and most are either good critical thinkers or on their way to becoming good critical thinkers. This is really valuable, because I think you stand to learn more from your peers in college than you do from your professors anyway. The "up all night" BS'ing sessions about intellectual and pseudointellectual matters are great, and you stand to learn so much by comparing notes or ideas. You know you've really understood something you've learned when you can convince a contentious Swattie in a debate that you know what you're talking about. You might be on your way to lunch, and you encounter a friend along the way, and all of a sudden an impromptu discussion of the morality of slavery in Ancient Greece starts up, drawing other passers by in, and before you know it, it's 3:00pm and you're late for class.
5. High caliber of connections and associates as an alum. The peer group advantage continues on into your life after Swarthmore. You will find Swarthmore graduates in any number of areas with all sorts of different social and business connections and, most of the time, they'll be happy to help out a fellow Swattie. Even with my mixed feelings about the place, I've still helped many Swatties find opportunities, and I've collaborated with several in my own work. I recognize that a Swarthmore graduate is likely to be competent and either has a solid work ethic or is incredibly clever about getting around doing mountains of work. Either way, that's the type of person who can make for a good colleague or collaborator, or someone I can recommend to another. There is an instantaneous degree of trust and willingness to cooperate that comes from both parties having gone to Swarthmore. Again, this is no doubt the case for other elite colleges, but it is one of the factors that contributes to making a Swarthmore education a worthwhile pursuit.

A.E.

interesteddad, your sarcastic and off-the-mark personal attacks just keep getting worse. You should make a better effort. And, no, I don't want to hear more about these surveys that we can't read and that don't apply to all of the colleges listed in the first post. And your diliberate misrepresentation of what other people say is just plain insulting. Do you think we can't see through this sort of thing?

What I said:
Your reply:
What I said:
Your reply:
Yes, clearly I'm calling for Swarthmore to hire Bobby Flay. That's exactly what I said, because a "competent chef" must be a "top-rated chef" and, therefore, Bobby Flay. Seriously, this sort of thing is asinine, and many institutional kitchens do actually employ a competent chef, and I have attended institutions with better dining services. This is a forum about Swarthmore, not an elementary school sandbox. Could you please, for the love of all that is intellectual and academic, try to raise the level of your posts? Again, you've filled your post with assumptions and personal attacks, like that I should have gone for the designer brand. I still don't care about the designer labels, and it wouldn't have any bearing on my success in my career. What I did say, though, is that perhaps I was wrong in assuming that Swarthmore's academic experience would be markedly better than that of an Ivy.

Do you even know how to make a post that doesn't misrepresent someone or engage in personal attacks, because 100% of your responses to me have done just that. Guess what, not everyone loves Swarthmore. Deal with it.

A.E.

Another positive point:

6. Public safety. Public safety is competent and they don't needlessly interfere with the students. They're also friendly and helpful. As far as I can tell, they really like their jobs, and the campus feels safe 24/7. More generally, this applies to most of the staff. Yes, I've complained that dining services is lacking, but the people are at least friendly and do make an effort. I imagine they do their best with what they're given.

interesteddad

And, don't forget that you "heard" that Bowdoin has good food. That's almost as rich as your internet surveys!

I read what you said the first time. I'm still rolling on the floor laughing. Indeed, college students have been bellyaching about college food for centuries. And, by God, somebody ought to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! WE SHOULD DEMAND IT!

Here's an idea I bet you hadn't thought of.... Tell all the vegetarians to jump in a lake so dining services can put all its effort into better food for the meat eaters. That would probably work. But, those incompetents running Swat's dining hall try to provide a range of options three times a day, including salad bar and a custom grill man for cooked to order stuff. God, they are SO incompetent. Oh, the humanity of it all!

brillar

Continuation of AE's comment on the dining hall staff: When I was on my visit, there was an adorable little elderly lady who let me use a breakfast voucher for lunch (even though she technically wasn't supposed to). She was so grandmother-y.

A.E.

Well, is it true or isn't it? Bowdoin ranks #2 at The Princeton Review for "Best Campus Food." Are they wrong? Is it all just a big myth that Bowdoin's food is better than Swarthmore's? What is going on in that kitchen of theirs that isn't going on at Swarthmore? Could it be... no, it couldn't... OMG THEY EMPLOY CHEFS!!! Should I just accept that "all college food is bad" just because you say so?

Here's an idea I bet you hadn't thought of... Eat at Swarthmore for four years and get back to me after you know what you're talking about.

jrpar

I've never eaten a meal at Swarthmore, but I have a very hard time believing that the food is so particularly bad that is it relevant to a prospective student's evaluation of the school. (I have eaten a meal at Bowdoin - it was mediocre. Sort of what I expected. It was fine.)

jmarin

AE, do you keep in contact with friends from there? It will be nice to know. Thank you.

brillar

Haha, maybe the quality of the food will discourage Swatties from gaining the typical freshman fifteen?

I've heard that at least the breakfasts in ML are excellent.

jmarin

I bet they are. Even if they are not, im sure you will enjoy it with the amazing scenery outside, as AE mentioned.

interesteddad

No thanks. I did my years eating college food. Only back in the stone age we didn't have things like salad bars or chicken vindaloo or greek bar. Just mystery meat and gruel.

I only did two years in the Williams dorms before moving off campus. We shopped and cooked for ourselves. Now, I'm way too spoiled to eat college food. I'm too fat and happy cooking out of my Bobby Flay cookbooks, thank you very much.

One of the curious trends at Swarthmore has been the mass movement of students moving back on campus in recent years...to the point where virtually nobody lives off campus anymore.

swatparent

AE: Thank you so much for your viewpoints, positive and negative. I personally really appreciate all of the time you are putting into this forum, in presenting what you see as the plusses and minuses of your Swarthmore experience.

A.E.

Yeah, and even a professor or two as well.

A.E.

I can think of a few possibilities for that. First, quite a few of the local apartments have been the same for decades, with little or no refurbishing. Second, given the state of the rental market all over the nation for the past two years, it's entirely possible rental prices have risen at a higher rate than room and board expenses at the college. Also, I think the total number of dorm rooms has risen in recent years, so the possibility of more sophomore singles/two room doubles and better options for juniors may keep them on campus, or in some of the expanded college housing.