interesteddad

I don't know about AE's expectations, but I've always expected to find excellent professors at every college and university in the country. I've never made the claim that Swarthmore is the only school with good professors or the only school without some duds. I think, as a point of fact, that Swarthmore has its share of excellent professors, but that has little to do with why I state that there is no better undergrad academic experience in the country than Swarthmore offers and that few schools can even come close. There are many, many factors involved, not the least of which is the degree of engagement on in a shared learning community by the faculty, the administration, and the students.

Oh, and btw, I have two close relatives who have been on the faculty at one of the two universities A.E. just mentioned. The stories they could tell about what it's like teaching in the highly-bureaucratic environment of a state university. They would laugh at anyone suggesting that the overall undergrad academic experience holds a candle to that of a small high-end liberal arts college with an 8-1 student faculty ratio, every academic support function under the sun, and a million dollar per student endowment. That is not to say they aren't excellent teachers (both are very highly rated on the professor rating site) or that they don't teach an occasional highly-motivated student.

There have been/are several Swarthmore parents on this site who are tenured professors and/or administrators at public universities. Ask them about Swarthmore's undergrad academic experience.

A.E.

My expectations were, unfortunately, inflated on account of the elite academic hype machine and the susceptibility of youth. Ultimately, you never went to Swarthmore, so you don't really know what you're talking about. All you have is second-hand knowledge. Having gone to Swarthmore and experienced its positive and negative qualities (and those of three other undergraduate institutions), it never ceases to befuddle me how you can be so rabid in your idolization of the place. But, whatever. To each his own.

I'm just not that impressed.

Oh, and btw, I've never been to either of those places. I figured you would just use it as yet another window of opportunity to cite endowment per student figures and speak for other people... you know, the same rhetoric you spout in every single thread you get involved in. But, thanks for proving my point that the identity of the universities in question doesn't matter. You will be there with your "two relatives" and endowment figures regardless of which ones I list. On a related note, some places do a lot more with a lot less. You should maybe look into Moneyball for an interesting discussion of doing more with less.

That said, continuing to drum up its endowment and publish big numbers should be a priority for Swarthmore, because it ultimately helps them draw in high caliber students, which is pretty much the only thing Swarthmore really has going for it that makes it decidedly superior to less-esteemed institutions (well, that and the nice campus). The elite student body is about 90% of the value of going to Swarthmore. And, of course, for any elite institution.

Right, because parents are such a great source solid, unbiased information about Swarthmore. Thanks for the tip, guy, but I'm OK on Swarthmore knowledge.

Karaganda

Sounds to me that "peer mentoring" of writing is sort of Junior TAs doing a rather important task that would better be done by professors. Or real TAs.

A.E.

This is true, but it's also quite standard for an undergraduate writing center. One advantage to university writing centers is that the "peers" or "mentors" or whatever they're called at any given place are often students in the MFA or English graduate programs as opposed to undergraduate upperclassmen. I don't think it makes much of a difference, though. I don't know of any place with a writing center entirely staffed by professors. That would be great and all, but it seems like an unrealistic expectation for any institution. Besides which, there are always office hours for that.

nngmm

You are wrong (which is not surprising, since you obviously don't know what you are talking about).

Swarthmore

I'm not sure why interesteddad makes such a fuss over the writing center. In my time at Swarthmore, I knew few students who went there without being forced.

epistrophy

I can only assume that -- as responses to the opening query (whether Swat is "snobby"?) -- comments such as these were intended as parody.

kroe

My daughter is very interested in Swarthmore, so I called about financial aid/merit scholarships. Funny how a single phone call can make such a big impact. The admissions person was so snotty and unhelpful that in the course of 5 minutes I went from about-to-book-a-flight-to-Pennsylvania to absolutely-no-way would I ever give Swarthmore a dime, much less my child! I know the Class of 2010 is huge, but we parents and our kids deserve to be treated as something more than nuisances.

dadx3

Sorry to hear that, kroe. Swarthmore is advertising their #1 ranking in the Princeton Review survey of students on how satisfied they are with their financial aid. Essentially all financial aid at Swarthmore is need based -- there are no merit scholarships other than a very few Regional McCabe scholarships for eligible students from the Delmarva Peninsula and 3 counties in Southeastern Pennsylvania. Swarthmore's 2008-09 Common Data Set shows that 1 incoming first year student was awarded a non-need scholarship. In the entire student body there were 12 students with non-need based scholarships.

SwatGrad

Dear Kroe -- your daughter probably isn't smart enough to get into Swarthmore anyway. Is that "snobby" enough for you?

bears and dogs

Wow that's mean.
Dear kroe
It might have been the same b..ch.
I was there last summer and the woman at front decided I am moron (ESL) and called in this teddy bear-sh guy in suit and dreadlocks mane. He was happened to be an interviewer for my kid and he had a blast. I felt the place was OK after all, so don't give up just yet.
Yeah SwatGrad, he is not smart enough but hey, let him dream, besides, getting rejected helps your alma matter's stats. More of them = better for you.

SwatGrad

I thought Kroe's post was ridiculous and spiteful for no reason. It was all about her hurt feelings. Boo hoo. What if Swarthmore is really the right place for her daughter? Isn't that what matters, not some helicopter mother's thin skin?

bears and dogs

I see what bothers you, but this is 2009. not when we went to college. Game rules have been changed even compare to say, 5-7 years ago.
Parents are sort of expected to be in “know” what happenin’ and in most cases it is better to be mediocre students with EC loaded time managed summer planned and have over involved willing purse opened folks on their back than genius seventeen year old with no one to help tax paper nor credit card to sign up for SAT IIs and ACT.
Let it pass, I donno you got any kids or not, but ignore helicopters and focus on kids. I have gotten over it, so can you!

kroe

Swatgrad, I doubt you're actually a graduate. If so, I'm sure your school would not claim you.

kroe

Thanks very much, Dadx3. That's exactly the info I was looking for. With a kid at the very top of the class, 2 kids in college but too much income (at least on paper) for financial aid, merit money is what we're after. Doesn't seem to be much out there.