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Old 11-20-2009, 09:49 AM   #1
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 172
Chemistry at Swarthmore?

From this report (http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/...by%20Major.pdf), I do not see a lot of graduate school representation within the Chemistry graduates (and that includes Biochemistry). How strong is the Chemistry department, in terms of curriculum, faculty research and grad school admission? From my observation, the course offering is fairly limited compared to other schools (may be this will be complemented by the Honors seminars?). The prof. websites seem a bit outdated with the latest paper in 2005 so I'm not quite sure what happened after that. Also, how many chemistry students are there per class year?
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:25 PM   #2
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Use this file instead. It's the five year post-grad plans. Looking at a single year of data is going to give you very misleading info at any small liberal arts college. The raw numbers are so small that you get huge year to year swings:

http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/...02004-2009.pdf

Also, be sure to scan down to the end for the predefined special majors BioChemistry and PhysicsChemistry as a lot of "chemistry" type majors at Swarthmore do these special majors as the school is really set up to accommodate that kind of thing.

Here is a table of majors (raw number and percentages) over time. This allows you to look at averages over the last four years. Again, look at both Chemistry and the related special majors.

http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/.../DegMajors.pdf

There are also a signficant number of Chemistry minors at Swarthmore, in part due to the structure of the Honors program (which requires a major and a minor) and the fact that you have Bio and Engineering students taking a large number of Chemistry courses and the intertwined nature of sciences today.

http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/.../ir/Minors.pdf

Swarhmore is one of the most science oriented liberal arts colleges in the country with large number of science/engineering majors and very strong graduate school results.

Here are the top 100 colleges and universities in order of percentage of graduates going on to a PhD in math, science, or engineering:

Code:
Percentage of grads getting PhDs				

Academic field: All Engineering, Hard Science, and Math				
				
PhDs and Doctoral Degrees: ten years (1994 to 2003) from NSF database				
Number of Undergraduates: ten years (1989 to 1998) from IPEDS database				
Formula: Total PhDs divided by Total Grads				
				
Note: Does not include colleges with less than 1000 graduates over the ten year period				

1		34%	California Institute of Technology	
2		24%	Harvey Mudd College	
3		16%	Massachusetts Institute of Technology	
4		10%	Reed College	
5		9%	Rice University	
6		8%	Swarthmore College	
7		8%	Princeton University	
8		7%	Carleton College	
9		7%	New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology	
10		7%	University of Chicago	
11		7%	Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute	
12		7%	Case Western Reserve University	
13		6%	Harvard University	
14		6%	Carnegie Mellon University	
15		6%	Johns Hopkins University	
16		6%	Haverford College	
17		6%	Grinnell College	
18		6%	Cornell University, All Campuses	
19		5%	Kalamazoo College	
20		5%	Stanford University	
21		5%	Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology	
22		5%	Yale University	
23		5%	Cooper Union	
24		5%	Oberlin College	
25		5%	Lawrence University	
26		5%	Bryn Mawr College	
27		5%	Williams College	
28		5%	Pomona College	
29		4%	Colorado School of Mines	
30		4%	Bowdoin College	
31		4%	Earlham College	
32		4%	Brown University	
33		4%	University of Rochester	
34		4%	University of California-Berkeley	
35		4%	Wabash College	
36		4%	Duke University	
37		4%	Worcester Polytechnic Institute	
38		4%	Amherst College	
39		4%	Stevens Institute of Technology	
40		4%	St Olaf College	
41		4%	Hendrix College	
42		4%	Beloit College	
43		4%	University of Missouri, Rolla	
44		4%	University of California-San Francisco	
45		4%	Occidental College	
46		4%	Alfred University, Main Campus	
47		4%	Allegheny College	
48		4%	Whitman College	
49		4%	College of Wooster	
50		4%	SUNY College of Environmental Sci & Forestry	
51		4%	Mount Holyoke College	
52		4%	Bates College	
53		4%	College of William and Mary	
54		4%	Knox College	
55		3%	Franklin and Marshall College	
56		3%	Georgia Institute of Technology, Main Campus	
57		3%	Washington University	
58		3%	Long Island University Southampton Campus	
59		3%	Macalester College	
60		3%	University of California-San Diego	
61		3%	Dartmouth College	
62		3%	Wellesley College	
63		3%	Trinity University	
64		3%	Juniata College	
65		3%	Ripon College	
66		3%	University of California-Davis	
67		3%	Florida Institute of Technology	
68		3%	Polytechnic University	
69		3%	Michigan Technological University	
70		3%	Columbia University in the City of New York	
71		3%	Lehigh University	
72		3%	University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign	
73		3%	Centre College	
74		3%	Hampshire College	
75		3%	University of Pennsylvania	
76		3%	Wesleyan University	
77		3%	University of Michigan at Ann Arbor	
78		3%	Colorado College	
79		3%	Bucknell University	
80		3%	Davidson College	
81		3%	Northwestern Univ	
82		3%	Texas Lutheran University	
83		3%	St John's College (both campus)	
84		3%	Furman University	
85		3%	Hope College	
86		2%	Clarkson University	
87		2%	University of Virginia, Main Campus	
88		2%	Illinois Institute of Technology	
89		2%	Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State Univ	
90		2%	Union College (Schenectady, NY)	
91		2%	University of California-Santa Cruz	
92		2%	Lafayette College	
93		2%	Brandeis University	
94		2%	University of Dallas	
95		2%	Rhodes College	
96		2%	University of Notre Dame	
97		2%	Middlebury College	
98		2%	University of Wisconsin-Madison	
99		2%	Colgate University	
100		2%	Hiram College	 
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:06 PM   #3
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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interesteddad. that was VERY helpful! I do see a range of grad schools for chemistry graduates in the 5-year span, which is reassuring. The number of chem. graduates per year seems a bit small (3?!), which is a good thing or not depending on how you look at it. (Maybe the small sample size does put the percentage of Swat going to Chem grad schools* higher). And holy smokes Biology and Economics! (I've heard Swat is a target school for I-Banking so that may be why).

*2005-06 HEDS Weighted Baccalaureate Origins Study

Edit: Also, could someone briefly explain to me the major and minor Honors? I've read the Swat website but I'm still confused.

Last edited by mcpheevn; 11-20-2009 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:17 AM   #4
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Location: Area 52
Posts: 1,381
If you'd like a LAC feel similar to Swarthmore, you may want to look at HMC.

More than 80% of HMC chemistry graduates go on to get a PhD, by far the highest in the country. Of course, there are only ~10 or so each year.

see bottom of page for source
Introduction to the Department of Chemistry
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Old 11-21-2009, 02:20 AM   #5
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I've considered HMC, but I don't want to be surrounded by math & science people all the time (my high school is one), plus I want some snow. Still, I'm gravitated towards schools with rigorous academics rep (e.g. Swat, Carleton, Grinnell, Reed) and I'm trying to gauge the strength of the chem department at each.
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Old 11-21-2009, 09:57 AM   #6
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Location: MA/Swarthmore 2011
Posts: 650
OK, explaining Honors. Here goes.

Basically, any student can choose to have normal Course majors and minors, which consist of a bunch of classes in the department (usually with some more specific requirements) and a senior capstone thing (senior seminar, thesis, "comprehensive project", etc.--it varies by department) in the case of a major. Students get grades from their professors on their classes, and they graduate. Straightforward.

But if a student decides to do Honors, he or she will complete three two-credit Honors preparations in the major (which can be a thesis, a seminar or a course combination; each department works differently) and one in the minor. Participation in the Honors program requires an Honors major and an Honors minor. Honors exams happen at the end of senior year, and external examiners (professors from other universities) come in to give the oral and written exams and assign grades of Highest Honors, High Honors, Honors or Pass.

Chemistry at Swat is what one might consider a small-but-mighty department. While they have relatively few majors, the total number of students taking Chemistry courses is larger than their major numbers would indicate. And a small department means that the majors get more personal attention from professors, etc.

Hope that helps!
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:56 PM   #7
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Location: Swarthmore
Posts: 3,227
Since interesteddad never says it, I will say it:

The percentage of people going to graduate school does not indicate the strength of the colleges' departments. For example, Swarthmore's percentage is higher than Princeton's and the University of Chicago's, but if you ask most Swarthmore professors which is better for math grad school, I think most would say the latter schools. I'm not saying that Swarthmore is a bad choice for those considering math grad school, but it's very hard to get research experience in math at Swarthmore, and very few Swarthmore math majors who go to graduate school end up going to the top ones. For graduate school placement, the economics, political science, physics, and biology departments are all very strong, and stronger than the math department. Though the level of instruction in math here is overall good.
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