OnceActed

What a great thread! Thanks, Ready4March, for starting it. It could also be called "Lessons Learned", and it should be mandatory reading for families starting their search for theater-related programs.

We were naive coming into the process, our previous college admissions experience having been with a non-arts child. My D is finishing at an arts high school, and was adamant that she wanted to apply only to BFA programs in acting. The first thing I would do differently as a parent -- and several have already highlighted this -- would be to insist on a safety school. Even though my D had a good outcome in the long run, anxiety levels (hers, and thus ours) went through the roof as she auditioned and realized for the first time how competitive BFA admissions are. Once she applied to a safety school that had rolling admissions, the edge came off and she was able to relax.

The second thing I would do differently is cut back drastically on pre-audition visits to schools. We visited about a dozen colleges and universities, but most of what we learned was during the first couple of visits (e.g., what BFA programs are like, typical facilities, etc.). Otherwise, BFA programs are so competitive that there is no predicting which programs will admit your child. I think it might be better to reserve most of the travel budget for April, after the acceptances come out, when a more focused comparison of programs becomes possible.

The last thing is not so much something I would do differently, than something I would have liked to know before engaging in the process. I did not appreciate the extent to which program admissions are separate from academic admissions. In our experience the first decision is typically an academic admission, and we found our D admitted to several schools, some with financial aid offers, before we received any program admissions. The BFA program admissions were audition-based and have taken a long time to be processed. In fact, they're still not complete. This has been very frustrating, and I think if we had known it was the norm, we might have handled it better emotionally.

glassharmonica

Many of the decisions my daughter and I made were influenced by what we read here. CC is a fantastic resource. My daughter does not have a high school theater program so she was truly on her own. We found a great acting coach on the recommendation of one of the CC moms in our area. That was the most important thing: a mentor with a lot of experience guiding kids through the artistic end of this process.

I think we did a lot of things right: in October she locked down a reasonable academic,economic safety with a good theater department. Thanks to rolling admissions, she was able to go into audition season with a sense of security. Another feature of the safety is that it allowed her to narrow her list. Whenever the question of applying to an another program arose, she compared it to her already-accepted college. If she would rather go to Temple than, say, Marymount Manhattan or UArts, she eliminated that program. So we were able to keep her list down to a more manageable size. My daughter applied to fewer auditioned schools than many people on this list, but she was only able to do that because of her safety.

What I would have done differently:I would not have urged her to apply to as many LACs at the last minute, worrying that she might not get into any auditioned programs and would need a more challenging academic environment than her safety. I urged her to do so because I wanted her to have choices come May, but in retrospect I believe I may have over-done it. On the plus side, she wrote a heck of a lot of essays, and some of the prompts were pretty interesting. It seems that she had the best luck at the schools with great prompts.

I would have had her scheduled her auditions earlier in the season for auditioned schools who have many, many days over a long period. She was rejected at one school, where she thought she was a good match, and where she had a lengthy audition with a very detailed and positive interview. The only factor we could have controlled better was her audition date: she went out there on the 11th of 12 dates, pretty late in their season. It may not have made a difference, but if her type (and she is a definite type, not common in the looks among their freshman class) were already picked for that season, her chances would have been greatly diminished by the late audition.

The last thing I would have done differently was to pressure her to retake her ACTs. She had a migraine on the day of her test last year and ended up with a score that was two/three points lower than all of her practice tests, yet within the range of the schools she applied to. On CC we were advised to have her retake them, although her ACT coach (she had a few lessons) and others in person told us her score would be fine. It was fine for admission-- she even got into an Ivy League school-- but in one, and only one important case-- her first choice school, her score seems to have made a difference in her merit aid. The reasons for not retaking them were always compelling at the moment-- a performance, a rehearsal, painful wisdom teeth... but retaking the test may have made the difference in her being able to attend that school-- financial reasons. We shall see.

Still waiting to hear from two schools, and another callback audition on April 6.

snapdragonfly

glassharmonica, that is another excellent reason to have a good safety. We did the same thing - if a program didn't compare well to the safety, there was no point, and while there's justification for auditioning at a dozen schools or more in this major, it's certainly no walk in the park and if you can save the travel money and cost in energy and time, put those resources elsewhere, that's a good thing.

arrdad

The one thing I wish we could have done differently is to fully appreciate how ridiculously low the odds are for acceptance into most of the good programs. Regardless of how talented your child is, the numbers game is working against you. So, please, when wise parents from CC implore you to find a non-auditioned safety, take their sage advice. (I predict that about 99 out of every 100 kids won't do this step properly.)

And don't make the mistake of rationalizing your future audition success relative to the results of peers or older kids from your HS programs. Well wishing HS drama and choir directors will tell your child they are better than so and so who got into NYU last year, etc. They will tell your child they are better than the last 10 kids from their HS that got into elite BFA programs.

I would even say that visiting prospective programs isn't as effective as we thought it should be. My daughter did all of her auditions on campus, and in retrospect I wish she could have gone to Unifieds instead. Her HS spring musical and dream role conflicted, so we opted to jump through some expensive and time-consuming hoops to go only to on campus auditions.

It would be nice if more schools would require video pre-screening with a consistently defined format. I think some kids' lists could be optimized much more efficiently and cost effectively through that process. I realize it's not perfect and not for everyone, but I still think it would help lots of young people.

The last piece of advice I would give is to tell kids that life isn't over if you don't get into your dream programs, or if you don't get into any of your auditioned programs. There are plenty of other programs out there that will allow you entrance and opportunities, some that might actually have better curricula and be a better fit for you to begin with.

Good luck to all the kids and their families!

hoveringmom

This is a great post. Even though this was our SECOND time doing this, I think we'd still do things differently. My D is fortunate to have choices, but it's still been very stressful.

First of all, although hiring a coach may be great, some of us don't have much money. We would never be able to afford a coach like Dunnard. So for those who aren't well off, please remember there are wonderful resources in front of you---my older son used his own high school director, and my D was blessed to have worked with a gifted professional director who volunteered her time (!) to help my D (the director is truly a giving person). I think the take away is that you should have *some* sort of coach, whether it's a high school teacher you trust or a professional coach who has good results.

Things we've learned:

1. Apply and audition much earlier. I don't know the stats but I believe your chances of success are higher if you audition earlier. Even if this is just my own impression, I still think it's good to apply early as that gives your child a chance to fall in love/weed out schools they thought they'd love, which brings me to

2. Audition on campus if at all possible. Flossy's post is interesting and no doubt right for her D, but my D goes a lot on 'feel' and fit. Researching extensively can help you find schools and weed out schools, but nothing replaces actually going. Obviously that's not possible if you have to travel far and your money is tight--but if it isn't, or you don't have to travel that far, I'd really encourage folks to audition on campus. I think it's super important to get a feel for the actual college and to meet the current students. At some schools, when my D auditioned there, she felt that the current students had absolutely zero in common with her (some very surprisingly), and at others, she felt an immediate bond. Ditto for faculty and philosophy. This is personal and in some ways intangible.

3. Do not worry about the reputation--worry about the fit. I can't stress this enough. Some programs may have this amazing reputation but if you're unhappy there and/or the learning style is not right for you, then you will seriously lower your chances of success. So, are you a match for the program *and* are they a match for you? Each program is VERY different and it's super important to find a program that you can thrive in and be happy in. Again, this is personal.

4. Take finances into account. If you are not blessed to be able to write a $55,000 check per year, do not back yourself into a college that is fabulous but that can offer you no money. Look into living expenses as well--sometimes they are extremely high, and you need to budget that in as well. Look into colleges that offer scholarships that match with your child and/or that are able to give great financial aid and/or cost less. This is seriously very important because I don't think it is ever a good idea to incur large debt.

5. Apply for safeties as well as BA programs with reputations that match your own desires. There are many excellent BA programs that aren't as difficult to get into.

6. Know that the odds of getting accepted are extremely slight, particularly - let's face it - if you're a girl. Play to your strengths, don't listen to others--do what fits YOU. Know what YOU want, which is sometimes very difficult considering you're 17 or 18!

7. AUdition first at the school you think you want least. View that audition as a trial audition. Usually your first audition is indeed your weakest one. Also, be prepared for them to ask what other schools you're applying to and have your answer ready (this was new to us and my D wasn't ready). Also be prepared to discuss why you want to go to that particular school. I don't personally like that they ask you these questions, but that's the reality, so you should be prepared for it every bit as much as the audition.

8. I do not believe the auditions are fully based on talent. (And my D got into excellent programs, so this isn't sour grapes). I don't believe that judging for 'talent' is possible in a 2 minute audition paneled sometimes by a single person. Sure, it's possible to screen out some, but I believe that many places are screening for other factors, such as type, height/weight, race, and definitely gender. Whatever is important to their own program. Since you can't control these factors, focus on what you can control, but be aware that a rejection at one place isn't necessarily a comment on your talent, and be aware that this is not only about talent.

At the end of the day,I don't think there is one single right way or wrong way to do this. Probably if I had 10 children and they all applied to theatre programs, I'd still be writing about what I'd do differently!

Ready4March

Wow, this is some great information!! Thanks everyone, especially hoveringmom! I think all of of us would agree on

1) APPLY TO SAFETIES (ACADEMIC AND BA)
2) THE ODDS OF GETTING ACCEPTED ARE EXTREMELY SLIM TO NONE
3) APPLY TO OTHER BFA PROGRAMS BESIDES THE MORE POPULAR ONES.
4) AUDITION FIRST FOR THE COLLEGES THAT YOU WANT LEAST (THANKS HOVERINGMOM)
5) AUDITION EARLY (I SORT OF DISAGREE) I TOLD MY D SHE SHOULD ONLY DO THAT IF SHE HAD THE RESUME OF DAKOTA FANNING.
6)TRY TO VISIT THE COLLEGE AND DEFINITELY SEE ONE OF THEIR PLAYS/MUSICALS
7) THE REJECTIONS ARE NOT A REFLECTION OF YOUR TALENT
8) WHEN TOURING THE CAMPUS, SPEAK TO OTHER THEATRE STUDENTS AND DEFINITELY ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS ( A FRIEND OF MINE D WENT TO A BFA IN NY AND DID NOT ACT ONE TIME IN ONE OF THEIR PLAYS, NOT ONE TIME! SHE GRADUATED AND WAS NOT IN ANY OF THEIR PLAYS!
9) DEFINITELY TAKE FINANCES INTO ACCOUNT (THANKS AGAIN HOVERINGMOM)
KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU ARE FOLLOWING A PASSION THAT IS HIT OR MISS! LIKE KRISTIN CHENOWITH SAID (FIND SOMETHING OTHER THAN ACTING THAT YOU LIKE TO DO AND DO IT WELL) WHEN THOSE DOWNTIMES COME (AND THEY WILL) THAT "OTHER" THING WILL COME IN HANDY.
10) LASTLY - EMBRACE THE COLLEGE THAT EMBRACES YOU AND YOUR TALENT!

glassharmonica

Ready4March, do you feel comfortable telling us which college in NYC this is?

amtc

No to get off topic but I know there are quite a few schools where there is no guarantee that you will be cast in a production for a whole variety of reasons. That is a great question to ask.

EmmyBet

Great list, Ready4March, but I would add a point about preparing well for the audition (however you are coached, if at all). Your academic stats and your audition are the only things you can control. Even your resume, since that is based on way too many outside circumstances, is less important, although I guess I'd say that finding ANY way to get experience in theatre - through school, community productions, children's programs, camps, volunteering, and yes, SEEING plays - will benefit you in your applications.

I agree that performance experience is an important element of any theatre education. Some people put more emphasis on "stage time" than others - some people feel the real learning happens in class. But it is good to look at casting policies, and also at how much experience you can get doing other aspects of theatre (tech, writing, directing). For example, My D turned down one lovely acceptance because she saw there were no design courses offered at that school (an otherwise great BA). She knew that she would want to learn those skills and would have been unhappy not to have had the opportunity to learn them formally.

Having been through one year with her at a BFA with guaranteed casting* and a production vision that is based on learning rather than impressing an audience, I would remark that I really respect both of those policies. I am glad she didn't choose - and didn't even apply - to a school that would let someone go through 4 years without a part, or that caters more to popular taste than to its students' needs in its production schedule.

* however, this is a school that does not allow freshmen on mainstage, which is another policy we respect. It has allowed them to focus on learning, to watch, listen and prepare themselves, and has eliminated much of the competition, at least for the first year. My D has had other performance opportunities (workshops, student-run shows), plus of course her full spate of Acting classes, monologue and scene work. She would say this policy was healthy and very wise.

snapdragonfly

Those are really good points to consider, Emmybet. Sounds like your daughter chose wisely.

Ready4March

glassharmonica, I would prefer not to mention the school because I have heard good and bad things about it. But I must admit that was one of the worse. I will never understand how a school cannot place a student in a least one of their plays. I felt really bad for her.

Great pointers EmmyBet.

Chelsea0011

The most important thing I think we did right was let my son make the decisions on where to apply. We certainly had discussions about colleges and their theater programs but his list became his list. Our only requirement was to apply to our state college. He had a #1 choice school and we had the ability to let him apply ED. He was absolutely sure he wanted no part of the Unifieds and was left with 6 BFA audition schools, 3 state colleges and 1 LAC, the last four being all safeties. As parents we were a little worried about "only 6 auditions", but that was his choice to limit the amount. Pressing him to do more would have just added undo pressure to the whole process. Now a word about the ED choice. As a parent, I was unsure about doing this. We were prepared to allow it, but I was concerned about not being able to have selections at the end. He got into his ED choice and as I think about it, he made the right decision and if left to me to lead him away from it, I would have made an incorrect decision. He may still have been accepted to the same school and had other choices but in the end it worked out for him to have it all done early. If ED is doable, I would really think about it for other students. The one thing that I think all should really look at is how much travel and money is this all worth. It is really important to only audition at schools there is interest in and maybe save the money and aggravation of traveling coast to coast and back again. Our calendar was filled with travel plans and one added bonus for an ED decision is it saved us a boat load of cash which, of course, goes right back for tuition.

OnceActed

The issue of travel is worthy of greater discussion. In my previous post I said that one thing we would do differently is cut back on pre-audition travel. I should have clarified that we live hundreds of miles from all of the top 20 BFA programs, just about regardless of how that list is put together. Our travel consisted of carefully planned multi-school treks in different directions from where we live. Because auditioned BFA programs have low rates of acceptances, this was not an efficient use of our travel budget. In our case it would have made more sense to audition regionally for reputable schools, then visit once acceptances came out.

However, I can see that it would be a very different matter for someone close to a number of top 20 schools. Preliminary visits might then make sense to cut down on the number of auditions, followed by auditioning at the schools themselves. That was not an option for us where we live.

Flossy

Yes, distance is a factor. I would eliminate anything that involved a flight before acceptance. No point!

NightOwl2

Great post hoveringmom! DD followed every one of your points with good results. She did not get accepted into every school she applied to/auditioned for but got into several including the one school we feel is the best match for her. Regarding #8, dd commented that there were a couple auditions where she could tell they were not interested as soon as she walked in the room.