ugadog99

The entire standardized testing thing is disgusting, from elementary school through high school. As a teacher, I know full well that one test on one day does not determine a student's success. (or a superscored test over a few days) I've seen too many students test very poorly but is the kind of student every teacher wants in her classroom. On the flip side, I've seen kids who test much, much higher than what they put forth in the classroom. I would love to see standardized tests vanish completely, but that will never happen.

connections

I'm both a teacher and an SAT tutor. Here's my two cents. I totally agree that the whole testing thing is a farce, but it is what it is; it's not going away any time soon. Other tests can also be viewed as a farce too btw--even the idea of trying to gauge whether an 18 year old student is 'talented' in a 2 minute audition for a 4 year program is, to my mind, a bit farcical. But we have to deal with the reality. And the reality is that it never hurts to have a higher SAT score. Your D's scores are pretty weak. It may not matter, but it may. My own son was actually rejected from BU ACADEMICALLY and his scores were quite high, nearly 2300, and top 3% GPA (still don't understand who he was rejected but colleges are simply not predictable).

Tutoring can help a lot. As a tutor, I typically raise scores at least 100/test, often more. Wealthy families pay for tutors upwards of a year in advance. I would definitely advise your D to take another test. Contrary to what many people think, studying vocab words out of context doesn't really improve your scores. I've actually never had my students do vocab flash cards. What improves your scores - besides being a voracious reader naturally - is practicing, feedback, practicing, feedback. If I were to have unlimited time with her, I"d have her do 5 practice tests (full tests). Before that, I'd work with her one section at a time to help her with test taking strategies as well as content. Each time I'd have her examine where she went wrong and why, and then self correct.

Given that her time is limited, I guess the best bet would be for her to practice as much as possible before the test without driving herself crazy. Whatever she can do is better than nothing, even if it's 10 minutes a day. If you can afford a good tutor, you can hire one for once a week. You can also do one of those Programs. But if you can't afford a tutor or find one, you can simply buy College Board and/or PRinceton Review practice books and have her practice and self reflect, and practice again. Towards the end, she should time herself to make sure she's in the time limit. I'd take the attitude that if she raises her scores, great, and if not, it's not much time & money invested.

Best of luck with this. It stinks, but that's how it is. To your original question then, yes, I think she should retake, and yes, I think she should have a tutor if you can find a good one and can afford it. But don't drive yourself crazy. Best of luck!

ActingDad

Flossy -- it is a fair point about whether its fair to compare kids who have had different levels of artistic training. However, as to the girl who learned her monologue on the plane, you do have to question the level of passion for doing this. Of course, my daughter has had the summer camps, the acting lessons, and the summer programs so I'm not viewing that part as unfair! On the other hand, these things also flow from a clear direction on her end from as young as eight that this is what she wanted to do with her life. While I'm sure there are many families who would not for financial or other reasons support these things, a smilarly motiviated kid to my daughter would have a pretty good shot a convincing a fair percentage of parents to support at least some of what we've done. She drove the bus on these things with us. There is no theater history in either my wife or I. I'd have made her a basketball player if it was up to me.

Connections -- was your son a BFA acting student? Are you saying BU acting wanted him but the school would not admit him with a 2300 and a top 3% gpa? Or was he applying just for a non acting program? As for what we ended up doing, I hired a tutor to work with her for two lessons of 90 minutes and she is taking the test again in November. I appreciate all your advice on practice tests but it is not happening. She does a ninety minute lesson each week with her acting audition coach on monologues and easily spends 8-10 hours a week on reading additional material and working on these monologues. There is no issue with her motivation on this level but SAT practice tests?! It has been hard enough getting all the essays out of her. I am not sequeezing something else out of her. I am just going to have to trust the advice that she'll be in the place she belongs. She has gotten such great feedback on the artistic piece of this over the years including from her current audition teacher who I have CC posters to thank for recommending to us. We'll just have to hope that being among the most prepared for the monologues will be better than being among the most prepared for the SATs!

TheRealKEVP

Maybe your daughter needs to start looking at other options.

Maybe she needs to sit down and think about where she wants to be in 10, 20 years, and then find out about people who are now at that place. How did they get there?

If she is a "modest reader at best", then a very academic environment may not be right for her. Maybe she should be looking at programs that emphasize the artistic over the academic. Also remember that you do NOT need a degree to become an actor. Many many actors have NO degree at all. There are also training programs that do not give out degrees.

KEVP

soozievt

I agree with connections that taking practice tests is the best test prep and my kids both did that and raised their scores considerably by doing so.

connections

My son was applying to BU as a BFA and was rejected from BU academically. Again, not sure how that happened but what can you do? Colleges are unpredictable. That's why it's best to increase your chances as much as possible and to cast a fairly wide net. I realize your D is busy--that's why I suggested 10 minute daily practice sessions for the SAT. Most ambitious students practice considerably for the SAT, so that's what she's competing with. Look, again, it is what it is. It just doesn't hurt to practice, in the same way that it doesn't hurt to practice for ANYTHING. The lower SAT scores may not hurt her in many schools, so if she ends up staying low, then ok--but if she practices for it, at least she knows she tried.

I agree with KEVP--if she's not a voracious reader and she's reluctant to do academic work like practice for the SAT without your 'squeezing it out of her', try to seriously consider the best match for her. A conservatoire without academic requirements and/or a school with low academic requirements sounds best for her. Of course yes, you don't have to go to college to be an actor, although I have to say, KEVP, it does seem much more competitive now than it was even a decade ago, and again, every bit helps. ANyway a good college program will hone your strengths, shave away weaknesses, and give you direction and connections. It sounds like she wants that at least. Best of luck with it all.

shacherry

actingdad

You wrote,

"you do have to question the level of passion....on the other hand, these things also flow from a clear direction."

I feel studying for the SAt's is also a sign of passion.

Kids have dream schools and dream jobs and have done the research and know what test scores to reach for. Some get help with tutors. But many others find low cost ways to study for the tests. If a child commits themselves to studying I think that is admirable and not really a god case for calling the tests unfair. There are other reasons it is an unfair test but no child should feel a victim of unfairness from this test due to lack of practice and study. They knew it was coming and had four years to prepare for it.

soozievt

shacherry....agree with you.

While prepping monologues (and songs for some kids) is essential, so is putting effort into putting forth the best academic record you can muster, particularly at schools where that matters in terms of admissions. It is not a matter of either/or when it comes to audition prep and academic prep. Both matter, I think.

By the way, while not in relation to the OP, one reason to get all testing out of the way in junior year is so that senior year has plenty to do in terms of audition prep and applications. I advise doing all testing in junior year (two sittings of the test) if possible and being done with it. My BFA applicant kid did that (well, actually she finished all SAT testing in tenth grade as she applied to college in her junior year....took the SAT twice, plus three SAT Subject Tests) and so the fall of her admissions year was full enough with audition prep and doing the applications.

ugadog99

Here's the thing, though. Some students just do not test well, period. It wouldn't matter how much "prep" time they put in. It could anxiety, ADD, or a multitude of other issues. In fact, the student could be a good, solid student in classes but fail miserably at standardized testing. Every student is different, and suggesting lots of prep may or may not work. In our case, it doesn't.

ActingDad, I highly suggest you and your D look for at least one test optional school, just for safety's sake. I'm heading out to senior pictures right now, but when I get back I'll find the link for you. It's stressful, I know. We've been living it. There is little to no hope of my D's ACT scores increasing, but she is going to try one more time.

soozievt

I realize some students do not test well. But it is worth doing whatever you can to increase your scores, rather than leaving it to chance. Retaking the test with no prep or practice likely won't yield much change. Test prep can pay off and is worth the effort and if it doesn't, then it is so. I do not believe test prep courses are too worthwhile. Taking timed practice tests and reviewing answers can help. Part of it is learning how to take the test itself. A tutor can also zero in on individual issues. A lot of effort goes into years of grades in school and since tests also count (unfortunately), it is worth not leaving it to chance and putting in some prep/practice. It surely cannot hurt and often it can help. Then, once that is done, the scores are the best you can do and find schools to apply to that are in range academically.

I will add that if a student has test anxiety, then one way to help with that is to go into it very well prepared. If a student has a learning disability, such as ADD as mentioned in the previous post, there are test accommodations that one can apply for if the disability can be documented.

connections

Look, of course some kids have anxiety taking tests. Some kids have anxiety doing auditions too. Some kids don't audition well. Some kids don't take timed tests well. It always boils down to practice. The more you practice, the better your chances. There are no guarantees, of course, and no one is saying that these tests are a be all and end all, or that there is a one to one correlation between the tests and intelligence. There isn't. But I have to say as a tutor--families that value academics are having their children practice hard for the SAT. They don't say, 'My kid has anxiety taking tests so oh well, it's a wash.' They say, 'My kid has anxiety taking tests so we are going to do everything in our power to help him do the best he can.' Again, there are no guarantees, but practicing and preparing for something will always increase your odds.

You're not saying the same thing for the audition--you're not saying, "My kid has horrible anxiety for auditions so therefore we won't do any practice for it because it's stupid anyway." Or: "My kid has way too much on her plate right now so she can't practice for her auditions more than a couple of hours." Your'e not saying that because auditions are important to your D. She is motivated to do well on these. So she is doing ALL it takes to give herself an edge. The same cannot be said for SATs. I'm not saying that everyone is capable of a fabulous score--I"m ONLY saying that it's best to position yourself to do the best you can do. If you've practiced a lot and taken the tests several times and your scores don't improve anymore, then at least you know you've done the best you can do. That's all one can ask.

And I completely agree with Soozievt and others--studying hard for SATs demonstrates a dedication to academics and self discipline in trying to achieve your goals.

For students with learning disabilities and ADD--as soozievt says, there are many accommodations College Board makes. Many of my students have ADD and learning disabilities--a few have had autism. College is competitive and a lot of work. If you won't devote time to studying for the SAT, then a more rigorous academic setting is most probably not for you. Does that mean you're a failure? Absolutely NOT!!! It just means that that's information you should know about yourself. YOu should plan your college experience accordingly and should probably avoid programs that include fairly rigorous academics.

stagemum

I think that sometimes parents and students have to accept that certain scenarios are probably out of reach, or are - at the very least - an extremely long reach. I sometimes read posts on CC predicting score increases that are unlikely to occur. If your child's scores and grades simply aren't going to get him or her into an Ivy League college, then it's unfair to keep pushing more test prep - why not find alternatives that are more realistic? Take a second round of tests, by all means, but work with what you have and presume that they will not change radically. Most BFA programs are within academic reach of most students; they are selective in terms of talent. There are some excellent test-optional schools out there, but you should identify them very soon if you are applying for next year - they often have early deadlines. If you are seriously considering theater, disappointment and rejection are just part of the landscape. Thousands of talented, accomplished kids will be turned down, but almost all will get in and thrive somewhere. The college admissions scene is often bewildering, and especially so for BFA aspirants. The best advice I can give is not to get your heart too set on one or two schools, but to consider other criteria (e.g. location, size, "vibe," etc.) in order to create a realistic blend of long-shots, possibilities, and safeties.

glassharmonica

Actingdad, I can't remember your daughter's list, but there are some BA programs with good acting departments that are test-optional-- Bard and Sarah Lawrence come to mind. Why not throw in an extra couple of applications, just to cover all bases?

Marbleheader

CONNECTIONS:

Just curious, are you saying your son was accepted into the acting BFA program at BU by audition, but was then rejected academically with a 2300 SAT and high gpa?

That's mind-blowing! Of course, BU, like other institutions, go by lots of other criteria besides just the scores/gpa, so there may have been other things folded into the decision for your son. And others with lower scores I'm sure were accepted - again, the admission group saw something in all the other materials submitted by those students.

You are right that colleges are unpredictable - which is why I think ActingDad's D should still apply despite her lower scores, because you never know what could happen. As long as the expectations are realistic - GO FOR IT!

connections

Just to clarify--I was responding to the poster who was dismayed at the thought of practice tests for his D.

I am not talking about different abilities or bright kids who even with practice, don't do well on tests. Nor am i saying that your scores will increase infinitely with practice. I've indeed had a student whose scores increased maybe 80 points max. But I could see that would be the case from the get go--the girl, a great kid, simply did not have the academic ability to do much better than that. But she did TRY. And a good and honest tutor will be able to assess pretty easily what the potential gain will be. You can tell that from the first session or two--whether the errors are, say, basic reasoning errors, inference errors, or whether they're careless mistakes or strategical mistakes. Depending on the sorts of mistakes and errors, the student can improve drastically with practice, or - in the case of a student who struggles with the sort of reasoning the SAT values - the scores will not increase much at all. But that's not something you can tell without practicing and analyzing. If you don't practice and analyze your test scores, you cannot tell what your potential is.

What I am talking about is the importance of at least trying and at least practicing. And I'm not judging the poster at all-some kids don't want to practice and don't care about the SAT. What I'm saying is that that's important info to know--that if his D doesn't like to read and is shying away from essays and practicing for her SATs then that is something she should know about herself when applying to schools. As glassharmonica says, she can also try colleges that don't value these tests as well.