Transferring to good privates (Ivies, Stanford, Caltech)

casperslide · 07-20-2012, 06:25 PM

Alright here's the story. UC Berkeley was the best school I got into out of high school, so I decided to go. I didn't realize how hard it would be for my dad to come up with money (he decided to have a fourth kid...yikes). So as an OOS student I am paying a ridiculous amount for my financial situation, and will have heavy loans (11 - 12k/year).

With that said, I think transferring is the best route for me to go down. I am going into my sophomore year at Cal, as a physics major, and I've been thinking about applying to ivy leagues or schools with a reputable physics program like Caltech or Stanford. I wanted to know how possible/impossible it is, and if I have a chance. Also do high school stats factor in if I am transferring as a junior?

Right now I have a 3.852 GPA, and I am involved with astronomy research under a notable professor and could get a nice rec. I am planning on getting another research position during the year, in addition to a PT job. I had a 1930 on my SATs (1320 M and R), but this score will be two years old once I apply.

If you need anymore info, I'd be glad to PM.

sometransfer · 07-20-2012, 10:25 PM

Transfer Acceptance Rates at the Top 25 Schools (2011 CollegeBoard)

All Ivy League schools, Stanford, and CalTech have transfer acceptance rates below 12%, except for Cornell which has guaranteed transfers. Brown and Cornell are the only Ivies with transfer acceptance rates in double digits. I suspect Cornell's non-guaranteed transfer acceptance rate is also around 10%. Stanford is at 4% and CalTech is at 6%.

You sound like a competitive applicant, but the science programs you seek are of the highest difficulty to transfer into. I would advise you to apply to less selective schools in addition to your dream schools. Even within the top 40 you can generous colleges with strong physics programs. The University of Michigan might be a slight drop in prestige, but their financial aid should meet your full needs.

entomom · 07-20-2012, 11:08 PM

Quote:

The University of Michigan might be a slight drop in prestige, but their financial aid should meet your full needs.

What are you basing this on? Is the OP IS?

sometransfer · 07-20-2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entomom

What are you basing this on? Is the OP IS?

I was under the impression Michigan was full-need for all applicants, freshman or transfer, in-state or out-of-state. My source, although terrible, is: Need-blind admission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Even though Michigan may meet less than the full need of out-of-state students, I suspect their financial aid will be better than Berkeley's.

entomom · 07-20-2012, 11:59 PM

You are confusing terms: need blind is an admissions policy, meeting full need is a FA policy.

Being need blind means that the school does not consider ability to pay in making an admissions decision. Meeting full need means that the FA package (grants, WS and usually loans) will cover the financial need of the student as calculated by the school.

A school can be one without the other. A relatively small handful of colleges are both need blind and provide 100% of need.

There are only two public universities in the country that give the same level of FA to IS and OOS students: UVA & UNC-CH.

Both Cal and Michigan are likely to be close to, if not full pay for the OP. Yes, they are will probably pay slightly less at Michigan than Cal, but mostly because the COA at Michigan is lower than at Cal, not because Michigan will give better FA.

sometransfer · 07-21-2012, 12:36 AM

Well... look at the link again, Michigan is in the list of "need-blind and full-need for U.S. applicants" on Wikipedia, so I took their word.

entomom · 07-21-2012, 01:11 AM

^ Sorry sometransfer, I was skimming and reading too fast

.

Office of Financial Aid: Sample Aid Packages

Quote:

While the Office of Financial Aid does not have sufficient funds to meet the full demonstrated financial need of many non-resident students in higher income brackets, there are private scholarships available and scholarships from U-M schools and colleges for eligible students. See our Types of Scholarships page for more information.

Note that the example of an OOS student with a family income between 60-80k has over half of the COA in loans.

casperslide · 07-21-2012, 02:23 AM

Thanks for everything you guys have provided so far. But I am looking for a school that will provide more grant aid than loan aid, as I have already accumulated a sizable amount of loans.

I guess I was under the assumption that a top ranked private school like an Ivy or Stanford would give out the most grant-based aid to someone as needy as myself. Is this a bad assumption to go by? Also, I'm looking to get into a school with a better physics program than Cal's because my GPA is above average for Cal standards. With this, I feel like I could get accepted into one of the aforementioned schools. I don't want to apply to a school that's a step lower, but I know it's always safe to do so. Will my senior-in-high-school plan of applying to colleges work again (2-3 safe, 3 match, 2-3 reach)?

Also one last question(s): Would transferring hurt my chances of getting accepted into a PhD program, and would it hurt my chances at coming back to Cal for a PhD?

sometransfer · 07-21-2012, 03:02 AM

Your assumption is true for the most part, but you should also be on the lookout for exceptions - generous schools which are lower in ranking. I would suggest liberal arts colleges because of their good financial aid, but I get the feeling you prefer national universities.

Your high school plan could work well, but you have to revisit what a safety, match, and reach are. Match schools are close in ranking to your own, while reach schools are above and safeties are below. For someone like you who is already in a top 25 school, I would recommend going for more reaches than safeties. You just need some money schools which are easier to get into, but in return, the physics program at these schools are weaker and less competitive.

With your statistics and interest in physics, Emory and Vanderbilt would be normal matches, and they will meet a lot of your need. On the other hand, you have to move South and their physics programs carry less prestige, but at least you get money. Also consider Rice, which is getting much harder (low to normal reach) to get into but also more geared toward engineering and the natural sciences. We can just ignore Brown because they are need-aware for transfer students.

The truth is a lot of transfer students have high GPAs in the 3.9-4.0 range, coupled with impressive internships. You are one of many qualified applicants. I think you should aim for your dream schools - Cornell, CalTech, MIT, Stanford. Just make sure to throw in Emory and Vanderbilt as your backup matches. Then again, everything I say might be meaningless in the face of a bad Fall semester next year, so you should come back in about 6 months.

*xraymancs* · 07-21-2012, 03:21 AM

Look at some of the other Association of Independent Technological Universities: AITU schools. Not all of them have really low transfer admission rates and some give merit aid for transfer students.

entomom · 07-21-2012, 02:54 PM

Quote:

I guess I was under the assumption that a top ranked private school like an Ivy or Stanford would give out the most grant-based aid to someone as needy as myself. Is this a bad assumption to go by?

Your assumption is generally true for need based FA (although you don't state your level of need, and even HYPS have their limits). However, between their generous FA and the high regard for these schools, many apply to these schools and transfer acceptance rates are very low, as sometransfer referred to earlier.

You should be considering your IS publics and schools where you might get merit aid, as xray recommends.

casperslide · 07-24-2012, 01:30 PM

Well my IS school (Rutgers) actually offered me somewhat crappy FA in 2011. I still would have had a good amount of loans to pay off, and would have had to pay a good amount. Why do this when I would most likely have to pay less at a private, while getting a better education?

entomom · 07-24-2012, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Why do this when I would most likely have to pay less at a private, while getting a better education?

I don't think anyones saying you shouldn't, but you have to be accepted first. Those suggestions were alternatives to OOS at Cal and low probability privates.

Good luck to you.

casperslide · 07-25-2012, 01:14 AM

I see. Yeah I guess the low probabilities aren't striking me as much as they should be. But thank you!

TransferToIvy · 07-25-2012, 02:48 AM

You've received a lot of information here; I'll break it down for you.

You are at a good school with a good GPA, but you are hurting in financial aid. You want to transfer: a) because you want to go to a better school and b) because you need more aid.

You seem like a decent chance for a transfer (not great not bad). Most transfers to Ivys are in the 3.9-4.0 GPA range. I would also say that a good SAT range is 2100+. Fortunately the longer you have been in college (and you want to transfer after 2 years), the less your HS GPA and SAT's matter. Keep raising your GPA and do as much as possible to get involved. Also, a huge factor in your admission is the essay you write. You need to make yourself stand out, and make them believe that there is no other place for you than (insert school here).

Unfortunately, I do not think that attending a prestigious private school will necessarily improve your FA situation. I do not know your actual need, but I would not be betting on transferring to an Ivy because they will give you more money. Trust me, they can be stingy.