UCB<UCSC? So says PhD.

MOS25V10 · 05-19-2008, 03:55 PM

So I just got back from my trip to California to check out UCD and UCSC. I tell ya, that's one heck of a flight from Germany.

Anyways, I checked out both schools for a couple of days. UCSC was beautiful. How often can you see the ocean while standing in a forest? The students kind of killed it for me though. I knew there were hippies abound but I didn't think much of it because I'm not a hardcore right-winger myself. The problem was, these didn't seem like the "let's fix the world" kind of hippies...they were more like the 18 year old "all government is bad, let's tear down the man" variety. All the students weren't like that though. I actually met some really cool students that were willing to show me around a bit.

Good school, just wasn't my scene.

UC Davis was cool...very chill. Every student I talked to, which had to be more than 30, loved the place.

During "Davis Days" (or something like that) transfer students from all over checked out the campus. The ones I met with were usually trying to decide between UCD or UCSD. All had UCD ahead.

After picking UCD I started looking for apartments. One of the places that I checked out already had two people living there. One was a grad student that taught at Davis and the other just got his PhD in some advanced chem...thing, haha. Anyways both spoke very highly of UCSC. The PhD guy got his "4 year" at UCSC, his Masters at UCB and his PhD at UCD. He said that he felt that UCSC was the best of the bunch. And this guy wasn't just some average joe-schmo. He was a genius. He was telling me about how he rewrote the nitrogen cycle. The greatest minds had been wrong for over 150 years and this guy figured it out. Robert Northup is his name.

I included this last part for all the people that for into a "lesser" (what a joke) school. There are people out there that would take your school over Berkeley or UCLA anyday.

The NAME of your school won't get you a job, it's what you DO that matters most.

lacity · 05-19-2008, 04:04 PM

yea, but the name of your school would somewhat help...just what i think

MOS25V10 · 05-19-2008, 04:31 PM

Not as much as you'd think.

From article "Stop the Madness" by Jonathan Alter in Newsweek's "How to Get Into College 2008".

"I still cling to what I call the "300 school" theory of success in America-that students can attend any of 300 or so colleges and receive a terrific education and even a leg up in the struggle to get ahead...The idea that a student is doomed to second-class status if not admitted to one of 10 or 20 or 50 schools is at odds not only with several studies on the subject but with my own informal observations".

twitchyhamst3r · 05-19-2008, 04:38 PM

I think it's all a matter of how you use your time at whatever school you go to.

changusmc · 05-19-2008, 05:04 PM

While you may get the same education in a tier 2 school, you will not get the same type of networking or job opportunities as a tier 1 school.

Malishka31 · 05-19-2008, 06:57 PM

there is some dude with a PHD that will tell you Kansas University is far better than Harvard..................

Where you go to school matters depending on what you want to do.

you are not going to be getting a job at Goldman Sachs if you graduate from Idaho U.

MOS25V10 · 05-20-2008, 12:10 PM

You don't know that for sure Malishka. Are you claiming that everyone that has a well paying job went to a Stanford or a Berkeley? That's what the schools tell you to justify their rates but you don't really believe that do you?

I bet you could get a job at Goldman Sachs if you graduated from Idaho U, you just have to kick arse. I'm not saying that a degree from Stanford wouldn't give you a leg up, but the idea that you get a golden pass is insane...and wrong (see article above^). They hire you, not your degree.

Also, does everyone that graduates from a "top" school get a great job?

I know a guy that graduated with Honors from Stanford that works at Wal-Mart...and he isn't management.

Some of the greatest people of our time didn't even go to college.

Changusmc you have a good point. Networking is the biggest advantage of going to a "top" school, or so I've heard.

Malishka31 · 05-20-2008, 12:29 PM

That is not what schools tell you to justify their rates. Berkeley is a state school and one of the cheapest schools there is.

You live in some dilusional world where life is fair. Reality is that they WILL NOT hire you.

Sorry to say this but i interned in some prestigious law firms- guess what, EVERY SINGLE lawyer there had a brand name degree. I was talking to one of the new hires and she pretty much bluntly said " i wouldnt be here if it wasnt for my NYU LLM"

That is reality when you are talking about "prestige" jobs.

Sure a guy from Idaho U might end up in Goldman Sachs, but the trials he would have to endure would greatly out weight anything else the average employee there went through.

Also, go look at where they recruit, Idaho U is not on the list- tons of schools that you would think would be on the list actually are not.

Getting those jobs has NOTHING to do with how smart you are btw. I am not saying PHD from Idaho U is not smart- you are mistaken if you think you are hired based on your intelligence for those type of jobs. When clients walk in, it matters what they see on your back wall, simple as that.

MOS25V10 · 05-20-2008, 01:18 PM

I don't claim that the world is fair. I know it's not. I simply said that you aren't given a free pass based on you school's name. I think that thought comforts sheltered kids that go to "top" schools on mommy and daddy's dime...yes I said kids. An adult would know better than think that a name on a degree gets you a job. There are lines of people that have leaned on that mental crutch and fell flat on their face. My former co-worker is a great example.

Lawyers are a dime a dozen so I can see how having a degree could help...by the way, sorry you had to intern with such ****** bags. The fact is that you can go on to go great things even if you graduate from some school in North Dakota. Yes you might have to work harder then the next guy but it can be done. Also I don't know many people that use the words "prestige jobs" when talking about lawyers. Most people see them as blood sucking jokes, atleast in my world.

"Top" school does not = great education. For a BA or BS you're probably going to be taught by a bunch of Grad students anyways. The ones going to Berkeley will find that out soon.

I recently asked the top psychologist at Lundstuhl Regional Medical Center (largest Army hospital in Europe) what effect getting a BA from Stanford rather then a CSU would have on a psychologists career.

Her response, "There is no difference, it's the graduate degrees that matter."

thetrumpet070 · 05-20-2008, 01:28 PM

Malishka is right, at T14's 50% of the graduating class goes into BigLaw after graduation starting at $130k, and the majority of the other 50% that don't are either interning to be inhouse, or entering the public sector for loan forgiveness. If you go to a crappy law school you will NOT get a job at Cravath, end of story. It's not a matter of if you work hard enough, they simply will not look at third tier law school graduates. Even after school, you can't hope to "climb the corporate ladder" in hopes of eventually being hired by Cravath, or Wachtell etc., they never make lateral hires, and focus entirely on associates straight from law school. Last year Cravath did actually make a lateral hire, but it was the first one in 60 years... "Lawyers are a dime a dozen so I can see how having a good degree would help," wake up, there's 350 million people here, every degree is a dime a dozen.

MOS25V10 · 05-20-2008, 01:33 PM

It's a good thing that that person that was a lateral hire didn't pay attention to people that share your beliefs. He might not have even tried.

MOS25V10 · 05-20-2008, 01:35 PM

^or she......

thetrumpet070 · 05-20-2008, 01:37 PM

Well he was a Harvard alum.... so there goes your theory?

MOS25V10 · 05-20-2008, 01:58 PM

in that case, yes.

This has been taken into very shallow waters (lawyers).

My original statement was summed up by Jonathan Alter in Newsweek's How to Get Into College 2008, "The idea that a student is doomed to second-class status if not admitted to one of 10 or 20 or 50 schools is at odds not only with several studies on the subject but with my own informal observations".

It is a joke to think that overall a name on a degree will get you a job.

thetrumpet070 · 05-20-2008, 02:23 PM

Yea that's true if all your shooting for is a bachelors, but in grad school the name on your degree will count for a lot, then again you can get accepted to any grad school from any college if you work hard enough. Even Chico State sends a few kids to Harvard for grad school from time to time.