goldyfiftyone

Professor,

So true is the point that you make about Jack Wagner. In fact, many of the cuts that are made happen simply because the student's style is so different from the one that is emphasized at UA.

One of my best friends was cut from the program years ago and upon asking the faculty 'why' he was told that he was very gifted and they felt like his voice/look was more suited for film than the classical stage.

This faculty makes decisions that they hope will benefit both student and program. I believe that, anyway.

NotMamaRose

I worry that this question will sound provocative, and I honestly hope it does not, because it is an honest question:

Several people here have stated that U of Arizona's cut program is fairly administered and prepares students for the real world. I want to know:

How do U of Arizona graduates fare in the real world, once those who are not cut graduate? Can someone name a number of U of Arizona *graduates* (in other words, people who were not cut) who have gone on to be in the forefront of their fields in live theater (musical and straight drama), TV, film, etc.?

Please be assured that I don't think that only programs with a long list of names the likes of Sutton Foster and Kristin Chenoweth are the only ones whose grads are successful. But I would like for someone to post the names of successful grads. (As a personal standard, I would call someone successful in theatre if they could largely support themselves doing it, or at least get paid regularly for doing it on a regional level. But for our purposes, I am talking higher profile.)

I guess, as a parent, what bothers me about U of A's cut policy is not that they seem to just cut kids who are not measuring up. They sound as if they actually cut kids who are measuring up in favor of kids who they ascertain are better, and want to transfer in.

Being cut probably does prepare a student for the harsh "no's" that the real world will bring in theater. But it also can leave a college student high and very dry at the end of half a year of college, or even after junior year! That is not a good position to be in, I am sure. Some programs won't even take transfers, and if a student were actually to prepare herself or himself by auditioning elsewhere in case he or she was cut, well, that takes time and money to do, too (audition and application charges, travel to auditions, etc. Not to mention having to answer the adjudicators' question: Why are you thinking of leaving U of A? Um, well, I worry I may be cut and if I am, I need somewhere to go. Hard to imagine that conversation.)

Also, college is not the real world. It's preparation for the real world. In the real world of theatre, one would not be paying tens of thousands of dollars to audition and to perform.

I am sure there are very valid reasons to have cut programs in place, and that most schools - including U of A -- exercise them in a reasonable way. But from the outside, it sure sounds cut throat and scary! Then again, I don't have the talent or the guts to do what these kids do, so bravo to them.

goldyfiftyone

i will try to do some research to address your first question. i am not too well versed as to where graduates from more than a few years ago are working...but the few i know...

craig barna (national tour of peter pan)
ben crawford (bill sykes in oliver at the MUNY opera house in st. louis)
matthew bailey (cinderella and a most happy fella at new york opera)
mandell maughan (spike tv specials, as well as the star of toyota's new mobisoded based on the television show 'prison break')
catherine kresge (various tv appearances...that 70's show...the history channel film breaking vegas)
michelle lane (avenue q, las vegas cast)

anyway...these are mostly (with the exception of barna) people who have graduated in the past 5 years.

keep in mind, also, that the program is regarded as a fairly NEW and UP AND COMING professional actor training program...so there will likely not be a list that compares to places like NYU, YALE, or CINCINATTI...

As far as the negative aspect of the cut process...sure...obviously it is there. They suck. We all hate them...even the ones of us who were lucky enough to be kept in the program. We hate to see our friends and colleagues leave. But the school accepts people based on a 90 second audition...a few minutes at the most of getting to know a person and their talents. If that person proves to be wrong for the program...or if someone comes along who proves to be right for the program...the school owes it to the students and to the paying public to make decisions that keep the productions at as high a level as possible.

In a 14 person studio class...one person who's work ethic or (as harsh as this sounds) ability lags behind the others....deprives the other 13 students of a smooth, productive work session.


As for the issue of transfers...i am not aware of other school's policy...but at UA you are dealing with literally 3 or 4 new transfer students per year...not some GIANT number like you might be led to believe. In the entire 50 person company (freshmen through senior) there are 3-4 students who were not at UA the previous year. The majority of 'replacements' come from the school's BA program...students who were already at the university...many already in the theatre department...who just hadn't auditioned yet....or who needed a year of training before re-auditioning.

Also keep in mind that this year's cut (which i believe was 16) is TREMENDOUSLY above the normal number. Last year, I believe a total of 6 people were cut (sophomore and freshmen combined). And perhaps even less the year before that. My class, a couple years back, lost only 4 people.

And even though some were friends...even good friends. And talented performers. I feel like the process benefits the students who remain...greatly. And, for the most part, helps the whole program. It is, of course, a shame that it does so while hurting the feelings of a few people each year...but these people ARE made aware of exactly when and how they will be cut.

NotMamaRose

Thanks, goldfiftyone. I appreciate that you took my question seriously, as it was a serious question. It does sound like grads from U of A are working in their chosen field and making a name for themselves, which is terrific and the outcome we all hope you all have. Please let us know about what you yourself are doing, now that you have graduated! Congratulations! (Or, as they say in Wicked: congratulotions.)

I was a little intrigued by something you said. You stated:

<<...the school owes it to the students and to the paying public to make decisions that keep the productions at as high a level as possible.>>

I agree that the school owes it to the STUDENTS to keep training and programs at the highest possible quality. But why does the school owe it to the "paying public" to keep the productions at a high level? Certainly, I would agree that anyone handing over any money for a ticket ought to expect to see the best production a theater company/school, etc. can put on. And certainly, a school trying to make a name for itself wants to present the highest possible quality production.

But a school's (and University of Arizona and all the other college level BFA and BA and BM programs in musical theater are based at schools!) absolute priority obligation is to its *students*, who are the people that the admissions committee has decided to take on for the purposes of educating them. This is true whether a student is attending college to study astronomy and physics, or musical theater. Of course, colleges want the best possible students, both to keep work at a high level, and (more practically) so that those students will be achievers who will later go out into the world and bring prestige, etc. to the name of the school.

It's a very complicated subject. Thanks for sharing your experiences and for answering my questions!
NMR

goldyfiftyone

i am thrilled to have found a forum like this...answering questions about UA is my pleasure...as i loved my time there and feel passionately about what the program can do for a young actor.

what i am doing...through the senior showcase put on at the university of arizona, i was hired to be a part of a one year internship at milwaukee repertory theatre. i begin that internship late next month. my ultimate goal (once i have nowhere else to go...yikes) is to wind up in new york.

i agree that my comment regarding an obligation to the public sounded odd. but i stand by it. at the universty of arizona the small, prestigious company formed by the BFA acting and musical theatre majors is known as the Arizona Repertory Theatre. it's function is to give the students the feeling of being a part of a real professional repertory theatre. one of the main reasons that it accomplishes this goal so successfully is because...well...IT IS a real professional repertory theatre. it survives on ticket sales, primarily. and we, as actors, must get used to the idea that without money...theatre companies wouldn't survive...and we wouldn't have jobs.

the tucson community is the lifeblood that allows us to work at what we love. and we are all better served as students if we quickly realize the importance of filling houses and selling tickets. is it the most romantic part of a life in the theatre? no. but it is practical.

sure...UA has it's primary responsbility to it's students. but it's students are being irresponsible if they do not also realize that without a strong season ticket base and a lot of good press...this department would not be able to give us the best education possible. new weapons for stage combat, new rehearsal clothes, big name agents at showcase, workshops with working professionals...these things all cost money. and we help make that money by performing well and getting good press, etc.

it instills a sense of pride to know that you are helping a business flourish. not a sense of worthlessness. you feel more personally connected to the theatre and more...well...grown up. you feel like a 'real live actor' to put it that way.

i would me remiss not to mention, by the way, that UA takes it's responsibility to us very seriously...and it comes through...loud and clear.

alwaysamom

goldfiftyone, I wanted to thank you for coming and sharing your opinions with us. I have a question regarding the premise that your company of actors must survive based on ticket sales. Is this an indication of a lack of funding from the University at large? This would definitely be a concern to me if I were a prospective student. I also wonder if you might address a question, as it relates to your perspective as it being a professional repertory company, that has come up in discussions I've participated in with friends who are members of the professional theatre community as well as friends who are involved in various BFA programs, that U of A often uses 'canned' music in their productions. I haven't heard of this being done at any other BFA program and wonder if you can explain the reason behind this and how often it's done. Thanks.

goldyfiftyone

i will start from the bottom....canned music.

the head of our musical theatre department, richard t. hanson, has a friend in california who experimented with a new technology that attempted to bring a live orchestral feel to computerized music...it didn't work we students and the community hated it when it was used in last fall's production of SIDESHOW. but let it be known...that is the ONLY TIME it has ever been used. anyone telling you that it happens often is mistaken. it was attempted once...and based on the reaction...i would assume it will never happen again. and we all had the issue with it that you would expect...we all wondered what kind of 'professional' world canned music was supposed to prepare us for. believe me...it was a near revolution when we found out about it no one was happy. in general, UA productions are accompanied by full sized, fully equipped, terrifically talented orchestras featuring professional musicians as well as students from the school of music. take if from someone who has sung with them...they rock. big time.

as to your question about funding...unfortunately...UA is a state school...funding doesn't come from the university itself, but rather the state government. unlike NYU or YALE who can divvy up money as they see fit...the state of arizona sees 'acting' and 'theatre' as secondary majors. so we do not receive a treendous amount of funding. this leads to some of the cuts that have been so often discussed on here...it also requires that the school hold fundraisers and benefits...but, i must say, as a student in the BFA program...you are NEVER made to feel like you are part of a poor program. thankfully, UA puts ALL of it's money into production value...which helps the kids (nothing beats being in a truly phenomenally professional feeling show) and it helps the department (ticket sales are higher when the shows are better...and ticket sales don't go to the state!)

but to be clear...the 'company of actors' has nothing to do with the business of keeping the school funded. unless we poke and prod and ask questions...the faculty never bothers us with financial issues. we NEVER feel like the department is strapped for cash. i happen to know a lot because i asked a lot of questions i am curious like that. but in general...they keep the business side away from the performance aspect. the school wants it's company of actors to focus on learning technique and creating theatre. they make money operating under the assumption that...if the faculty is good...the students will learn...the students will be good...then the shows will be good...then people will want to see them...money will be made the process works for everyone!

i am more than happy to answer anyone's questions about UA. i am glad i can offer a first person perspective.

jersey44

How many shows do you put on and how many tickets do you sell? For example:

5 shows, 6 performances each, 1000 seats @ $15/seat = $450,000

Once you subtract the costs, that doesn't seem like a significant source of funding. Of course, I could be way off base if you have significantly more shows, and/or performances, and/or seats, and/or higher ticket prices and/or extremely low costs (not impossible, but unusal for high quality productions).

I'm only curious because I've never thought of the performances as a significant revenue source for a theatre department. (Uh oh, I guess the "accounting major" mom is coming out!)

I think it's great that you're supportive of your school, but I also believe the concerns about the cut policies outweigh all else. I, for one, would never allow my child to consider the program. A school should support the students it accepted by audition, unless they are slacking off (missing classes, arriving unprepared, etc.). Even then, a probation period with clear written expectations is warranted.

goldyfiftyone

6 shows...16 performances (2 previews and 14 shows) 400 seats...tickets range from $21.00 (previews cost $18 i believe) to $30.00 (depending on musical/play student/senior prices, etc.)...i am certainly NOT an accounting major...but i think they likely gross about $700,000. of course...this is a GUESS...all the way. i know that in the case of a very successful show (guys and dolls in 2004)...over 7,000 people saw the show during the run....if they are paying an average of $25...that is $175,000 for one show.

Arizona's ticket prices are VERY high comparatively...luckily the reputation they have in the community allows that to be possible.

Almost ALL schools with prestigious BFA programs have cut policies that function EXACTLY like UA's. The only difference is that this year A LOT of folks got cut. I do not know to what to attribute that. But it is usually a very small number. On par (or LOWER) than the number cut at similar schools.

In fact...I am not sure why people are making such a big deal about it. Performing arts schools with conservatory programs all make cuts. some make them every semester...UA does it once a year. and some make them throughout your education..UA stops once you hit junior year.

The cut system is really VERY tame on a national scale.

soozievt

BFA programs do NOT ALL make cuts. My child applied to many of the highly regarded BFA programs and barely any had a cut system. None had the type of situation described on this thread either. While examples abound, just naming a few well know programs my kid applied to that did not have cuts....UMich, CMU, NYU/Tisch, Syracuse.

jersey44

I'm not sure that's an accurate statement. This thread contains a lot of detail about various experiences with cut policies and I think you'll find that only a small minority of "prestigious BFA programs" have them (e.g. CCM):

Schools with Cut Policies

daisy123

NotMamaRose, Above you posted that not many programs have graduates the likes of Sutton Foster or Kristen Chenoweth. Just a reminder.... Sutton Foster did not graduate from any BFA program. She went to CMU for one year and then dropped out and moved back to Michigan. So, once again it goes to show that while graduating from a BFA programs has it advantages. But, there are many, many performers who have not graduated from one of these "top" schools or have never graduated at all!

jersey44

For starters, there's the emotional side of it. There's nothing more painful for parents than watching their children suffer. (That's something you really won't understand fully until you're a parent.)

Then, there's the practical side of it:

Tuition and fees: $4,494 in-state, $13,678 out-of-state
Room/board: $7,460
Books and supplies: $780
Transportation: $570
Personal expenses: $2,420

Many (most?) of the classes will not transfer to a non-BFA degree program, yet the timing of the cuts essentially ensures that the affected students will not be able to transfer into other audition-based BFA programs. Not a good financial situation for most parents to find themselves in.

goldyfiftyone

i didn't mean....why are people making such a big deal about being cut. i meant, why specifically about the cuts at ARIZONA. believe me when i tell you that i know how big a deal cuts are...i lived for two years not wanting to utter the word lest i upset the gods of theatre

but the review policy (which i will now call it since that is was Umich calls it) is similar to that at many (i inappropriately used the word most) schools with similar programs.

samia525

As far as U of A's cut policy, it is not enough to say to the entire group of students that any of them may be cut come May. It is NOT enough. The school has an obligation to have meetings with individual students who are in danger of being cut and LET THEM KNOW WHAT THEY NEED TO WORK ON. Telling the entire class to make plans as if they were going to be cut creates an atmosphere of fear and nervous gossip - who will be cut? Her? Him? Me? Who? It's not ethical and it only succeeds in making students feel unsafe in the very environment that is supposed to be nurturing them.