goldyfiftyone

let me also say that i apologize for assuming more schools made 'cuts' than the number that actually do.

however...cutting students from BFA programs (or...more diplomatically put...asking students to undergo a review in order to advance) is common practice. it happens at emerson. at boston conservatory. to some extent it happens at michigan (regardless of what some people on hear have heard). It happens at UC Santa Barbara...a recent change. and at MANY other schools across the country.

goldyfiftyone

Samia...

you know that most students know whether or not they are in danger of being cut. we are dealing with classes of only 16 people, samia.

we all knew which...4-6 students were in danger. we all knew 5-7 who had nothing to worry about.

college is not high school. if you feel like you are lagging behind or struggling to grasp concepts...if you are not happy with the roles you get or how you are being treated....it is YOUR responsibility to go to the faculty. they are not babysitters...but teachers.

i understand WHY you feel the way you do. in your position i might feel the same way. however...it is not fair to call a perfectly reasonable practice 'unethical'

NOT fair.

I ALWAYS felt safe and nurtured in that environment...and the threat of cuts simply made me feel like they ACTUALLY cared how good i was. that there was some reward for growing and being talented. It makes you feel like people are really waching you...actually tracking your growth. They dont just accept you...and forget you.

samia525

Exactly my point: the classes are small. That makes it even easier for the faculty to give people honest individual evaluations of what they need to do to not be cut. In my class, I was not one of the 4-6 people everyone knew was in danger of being cut. I was the surprise. And I had no warning whatsoever, and nothing to go on other than compliments from both my acting and voice & movement professors on how well I was doing.

At this point, I'm glad I was cut from the U of A, because I now have a chance to go to a school that will be much better for me: the Boston Conservatory. But it's still wrong that they reserve the right to completely surprise people with a rejection letter after they've worked so hard and spent so much money. There should at least be some kind of warning system for the individual - not the entire group. I remember very clearly how vicious the gossip would get every year around cut time, and how that fear would permeate every class and every performance. Fear of that caliber doesn't belong in an educational environment. Even CCM warns their kids on an individual basis. Why can't U of A do the same? Not everyone has the money or the time to go and audition for other schools every year just in case they get cut from their current program.

goldyfiftyone

samia...

your leaving and coming back put you on a constant watch...i am not attempting to say that your cut was not a surprise...i was young and new to the school...but i remember hearing that anyone who voluntary took a leave of absence should definitely be worried about getting cut. i do not know why you left...and i am sure there are a number of extremely good reasons...but the faculty has to look out for the program. and students who leave and come back...are threats to leave again.

secondly...and i will say this again...it is YOUR responsibility to find out if you are on the cusp. harold, marsha, brent, dianne, dick...always available and easy to talk with. in my four years observing cuts...only ONE person has been cut that was not thought to be on the 'danger list' and some people dont know they are on it...but they are.

my cousin, by the way, is an 05 graduate at BoCo and they have a cut system as viscious as UA's. so be prepared for that.

Midsummer, by the way, was a teriffic show. one of the reasons i auditioned.

samia525

"secondly...and i will say this again...it is YOUR responsibility to find out if you are on the cusp. harold, marsha, brent, dianne, dick...always available and easy to talk with. in my four years observing cuts...only ONE person has been cut that was not thought to be on the 'danger list' and some people dont know they are on it...but they are."

I regularly talked with my professors about my status in the program, and again, I got nothing but good reviews. Especially from Marsha and Dick. That's why I was literally dumbstruck when I read my letter and saw it was not inviting me back. I would go to the professors' offices and ask them how they thought I was doing, dancing around the question of whether or not I was in danger of being cut (because as I remember it, that was a touchy subject and you weren't supposed to outright ask them that) and I never got any hint from either of them that I was in danger.

As for BoCo's cut system, they actually do warn individual students who are in danger of being cut, and according to my friend Halley, who works there, there are never any outright surprises.

goldyfiftyone

BoCo...my cousin was DEFNITELY surprised by some cuts.

I, too (along with almost anyone who works at UA) would also insist that there are no outright surprises.

And you can ask the question, 'am i in danger of being cut?' i know those who have...i know people who have gotten a straight, 'no' answer and a straight 'yes' answer.

samia525

In that case, why tell everyone to prepare as if they were going to be cut? And why couldn't they come out and tell me when I would go in to talk with them about it that I was in danger? Why shower me with compliments about how well I'm doing and how great my attitude is? Why even go through the charade of giving me good grades?

Those are rhetorical questions. My point is that there ARE surprises, and they don't warn people. Maybe things have changed, but when I was attending, it was NOT cool to ask a professor outright if you were in danger of being cut. But I certainly asked everything else, and again, I never got an answer that made me think I would ever get cut.

goldyfiftyone

samia...i don't know you more than in passing...but can't you imagine that perhaps you are slightly jaded?

this should not be a personal attack forum...so i think this should go back to a focus on UA as an entire program and not YOUR surprise cut.

in my experience...people who are cut often think they were a surprise.

people who arent cut...often knew exactly who would be cut.

if the faculty was dishonest with you (which i doubt) i am sorry. but they are honest with me...and with everyone with whom i am close.

that is all i can say on that subject.

chrism

"Almost ALL schools with prestigious BFA programs have cut policies that function EXACTLY like UA's. "

This is definitely NOT true.

fishbowlfreshman

Gah ... And to think I almost sent in a video audition last year because that National Merit full ride was awfully tempting ... and classical acting is totally my thing.

You're right that as written, the UA "review policy" isn't all that much different than some of the other schools. I remember seeing it last year and it seemed fairly innocuous. As you and others have described it, however, it is much different in practice than all I know except DePaul and even theirs doesn't involve transfers. Even CCM has backed off on their cut system some because they were losing out on a lot of talent to other programs that don't engage in this silliness. I agree completely with Samia that it is unethical and completely unreasonable and I'll add that I think it ought to be illegal. I imagine it will be found to be counterproductive in the long run and will have to be done away with if the program is to survive because I don't see how anybody in their right mind would even bother to apply after reading here unless they were in-state and/or it was the only place they could afford. These discussions do come up pretty high in Google searches, ya know. It's great that forums like this exist so that any buyer who has done his/her research may beware.

goldyfiftyone

most talented young people want to go to a program where they will be tested against a high bar.

ua's program is ever growing in prestige...and opportunities like the one CBS gave the school by choosing it along side some of the elite schools in america to be featured on The Early Show will be viewed by FAR MORE people than a few posts written by people who were cut.

the cut system is really not terribly tough at UA. we are talking about 5 or 6 people most years.

chrism

sigh...

see: Schools with Cut Policies

#69

goldyfiftyone

look...obviously there are people who just don't like programs that make cuts. that is your prerogative.

UA's program worked for me. i loved it. my friends and peers loved it. we had a blast. the program is in good shape...it is starting to get more and more recognition on a national level.

i hope they don't change. but i understand why others wish they would.

samia525

"this should not be a personal attack forum...so i think this should go back to a focus on UA as an entire program and not YOUR surprise cut.

in my experience...people who are cut often think they were a surprise.

people who arent cut...often knew exactly who would be cut. "

I haven't been attacking anyone personally - I have been attacking what I see as an unethical practice by a university that I have had first-hand experience with.

On the other hand, just within the statements I've copied and pasted above, you have been attacking me personally - my credibility, my character, my maturity level. I actually think U of A was right to cut me - I wasn't right for their program, mostly because I didn't particularly *like* their program, and there was at least one professor who I found to be incredibly abusive to students in classes and rehearsals (you know who I mean...) But I find an enormous amount of fault with their lack of an individual warning system. Also, the faculty did not tell me I was cut because I was a bad fit for the program - they told me it was because I was an incompetent actor.

The head of the department at BoCo offered me admission as a transfer on the spot in my audition - I don't think that happens to incompetent actors.

Okay, I'm all done on this subject. All I'm trying to do is give people the details of *my* experience with this particular school, so they don't get a one-sided view of things. There are some professors at the U of A who I think are absolutely brilliant and wonderful, and Marsha Bagwell is one of them. She has posted on this board recently. Anyone who has the opportunity to study with her should consider themselves blessed, and I know I do. But there are other aspects of the program that are very scary and perhaps not worth the risk. I'm just trying to tell my story, and I would very much appreciate it, Goldyfiftyone, if you wouldn't continue to attack my personal character in your efforts to make your school look good.

goldyfiftyone

i apologize for anything that you interpreted as a personal attack...

as i said...this is a moot point. some people dislike programs that make cuts. others dont.

everyone has the right to their own opinion.

we can agree on one thing...marsha pretty much rocks