soozievt

Ms. Bagwell,

I very much appreciate your taking time to visit and post on this site. I would agree that prospective students should not rely simply on this site or on one or two people's experiences in assessing a program. They should get information directly from the source, as well as garner perspectives from many current students and alum, and not just one. However, YOU are a direct source and since questions are being raised here, you CAN set the record straight since many who visit this site are trying to obtain as much information as they can about these programs.

I know that U of Arizona is a fine program. I have to admit that after reading the discussion in 2006 about your cut policies and process, I have been reluctant to suggest this program to prospective students, even if the program itself is very good training (my own daughter was in a professional production with a fairly recent graduate of your program who is quite talented indeed). I have a niece who at first considered your program but once she heard about this policy, took the school off her list and is now attending another BFA in Acting program.

Like AlwaysAMom, I am confused because you are now saying you would never cut 10 students from one class. However, back in May of 2006, you posted:

From my understanding, therefore, 10 freshmen BFA students were cut from the BFA program that year (even if that number was not typical of some other years). Is that right? I don't wish to rehash the entire discussion, although I disagree with this policy myself and what gives me pause is that transfer students and BA students were taken into the program over current BFA students whom you had accepted into the BFA program. It seems to me that if you want to do it this way, that it may make sense to have a process like a few schools have where everyone enters as a BA student and then after the first year, they must audition into the BFA track. But these 10 students who were accepted into the BFA track were passed over for transfer students and BA students and not told until May. I know my own kid would not have wanted to apply to a program with such a policy. In any case, can you explain the discrepancy between the "never cut 10 from one BFA class" with the statement from May 2006 where you said you did indeed cut 10 from that year's freshman BFA class? Moreover, if you feel you would not want to cut ten, has something changed at UArizona since that year in how you operate the program and this process? It seems hard to imagine that you really had one very bad class who all went through the same admissions process as all the other classes. Has some philosophy or procedures been changed along the way?

MusThCC

Not to pile on, but rumor was circulating at Unified auditions that every female freshman MT major was cut from last year's class. This may have been strictly rumor, pulled out of thin air, or it may have mistakenly referred back to the year being discussed above. However, whether true or not, you probably should be aware that this rumor and perception exists, and have the chance to deny or clarify.

soozievt

^^^That's even more reason to set the record straight because if such rumors abound, be it on CC or at Unifieds, it can hurt a program if not accurate. So, we have faculty here who hopefully will clarify here to this very captive audience as this is a major resource on the web about MT programs.

I also am curious if the administrators of the program ever get concerned about the talent pool of prospective students whom they may or may not attract. For instance, my daughter is good friends with very talented theater and musical theater youth from around the country and not a single one of these peers applied to UArizona and they all ended up at well known BFA programs. None of the students whom I advise have applied to UArizona since I read the cut discussion here (I had one client apply prior to this situation, however). There is a significant segment of the talent pool (and I venture to say the high end of the talent pool) who are not applying to UArizona and I am wondering if this policy is hurting the pool of applicants the program may attract.

mbagwell

I looked back at that post and I saw that you are correct we did not advance 10 freshman. That was from acting majors and MT majors, not 10 from Musical Theatre. If you look back you will also see that year was special becasue of former students returning, which is rare, and many talented BA students auditioning. Since then the average number of students not advanced is zero to three.

With the feedback and national recognition we are receiving from the New York casting directors and agents, the University of Arizona is now among the top Musical Theatre schools in the country according to the response from our Showcase. We had 7 students get agents. Many were offerred jobs from producers and artistic directors in atendence. All were told to contact agents when they arrive in New York.

If you study our curriculum, you will see we offer an excellent program. Also study the professional background of our faculty compared to other schools. We have many students playing roles on Broadway and national tours. One of our alums just got a lead in the new Broadway show SHREK.

I am putting the "cut" policy at our school to rest. The year in question was an exception not the norm.

mbagwell

Please read my recent post I wrote today.

soozievt

mbagwell,

Thank you for returning and offering a response. I can only speak for myself but I have no doubt that the curriculum, program, and faculty at UArizona are good. That was never really a question in my mind. I have no doubt that the graduates fare well upon graduation. I think the issue that some are discussing is trying to make sure they fully understand the policies and process at each school in order to make an informed decision as to what philosophy or policy they feel comfortable with. For example, CCM is a renowned program for MT. Few would question that. One reason my own child didn't apply was their cut policy and the atmosphere that can create. DePaul is an excellent acting program but some are not comfortable with their policy to cut half their freshmen class (myself included). So, it is important for those who are exploring programs to learn all that they can in order to make a choice that suits what they are looking for. A program can be excellent but not fit other criteria a student may have....be it a cut policy, size, location, and so forth. I don't know if you have changed your practices since spring of 2006 or if for some odd reason that class was like no other for you. Many are not comfortable with the notion of transfer students and BA students taking the place of those already accepted into the BFA (unless those students were flunking out). I understand you believe in your policies and many who apply are comfortable with them and that is all that matters. But what people are seeking is as much information as they can so that their choices are informed. Extoling the program really is fine but to my observation, was never being called into question (ie., graduates getting work, reputation in the field, professional faculty, fine curriculum, etc.).

Out of curiosity, what determines that a school is "among the top MT schools in the country?" Is it the number of students who got agents? I'm not sure I follow this "rating" or what you mean about "now" it is among the top programs or what criteria that is based on. I'm just asking and don't mean this so much about UArizona but to any school making that statement and what it is based on. Thank you.

sweetclyde

At the end of last year (2006-2007):

4 students were cut from the Sophomore Musical Theatre class, and 2 were cut from the Sophomore Acting class
In addition, at least 8 Freshman (Acting and Musical Theatre) combined were not advanced, though I don't remember the exact number.

Perhaps Ms. Bagwell misremembers, but I assure you those that were cut do not.

Arizona is a pretty good school, and a lot can be learned there, but do know that - despite what some people may say - they do have an aggressive cut policy. From experience I can tell you, definitely take that into consideration when choosing your school.

sweetclyde

I should add that in both of the cases above, the number of people cut represented about 1/4 to 1/3 of the original class size.

loverleecait

Thanks to mbagwell and everyone who responded with additional information. I am certainly aware of the "cut" policy, and while I understand that this may not suit everyone, I believe that as long as students are notified of the risks and benefits going in, all is fair. Thanks again!

thegreatargos

It is clear to see Ms. Bagwell contradicts herself in these posts; this is alarming to see mostly because she is a representative that has been kind enough to speak on behalf of the school.

I can say that because of my particular situation I have a very unique perspective on all this, I was one of the many students "cut" from the class in question in 2006 and I now attend Carnegie Mellon's School of Drama as a freshman acting major. As I have no motive to lie to anyone on this board, I can say with full integrity that there were indeed 10 people cut from my class that year. This is NOT including those who were cut from the class above me, bringing the grand total to somewhere upwards of twenty (I am sorry I do not remember the specifics). You can see from what sweetclyde posted above around 14 students were cut last year (though I can not attest to that myself).

A few days ago Ms. Bagwell sent me a private message with the subject line "Shame on You", somehow insinuating that I was spreading lies in regards to what happened there. I would like to direct that right back at you Ms. Bagwell. Shame on You. For coming to this board and attempting to cover up the actions of your faculty. You changed the course of these people's lives and are now trying to make it seem like it didn't happen? Thankfully, my life was changed for the better, but there are a large number of people who I am sure were not as lucky as I.

Meridian

It may be important to note that the current Chair of the UA Musical Theatre Dept is retiring at the end of this year, and they are currently searching for a new chair. Perhaps the new chair will have a different philosophy on cuts and will follow a different course.

soozievt

As an educator who has taught on the college level, I can see not advancing students in a program who have poor grades, poor work ethic and are not attending classes. I cannot see cutting students based on "talent", the same students who my program deemed talented enough to be admitted in a very competitive process. I can't see cutting because some "better" kids came along as transfers or from the BA program. In my view, as an educator, if the student is doing the work, putting in the effort, and growing, my obligation is to see them through the degree program.

What confuses me here with this school is that one parent said her daughter had all A's in her theater classes and was cut. I don't understand how a student can be misled to think they are doing well and then be cut entirely. Then, I recall a former student who used to post here who was cut and then landed at Boston Conservatory, clearly a very well regarded program in this field. Now, in post #25, a student who was cut landed in CMU's BFA program, clearly one of the top programs in the nation. It would seem that these students had the "talent" to succeed if programs more renowned than UArizona took them in as transfers which is no easy feat to accomplish. So, I don't understand what goes on at this program. Good grades and talent....still cut. It would make me very nervous to apply to such a program. My kid might consider a program that said it doesn't advance students who don't do the work, etc. because she would not be worried since her work ethic is very strong and she strives for high grades, etc. At this school, I am not sure I really understand the philosophy and criteria for the cuts and that would give me pause before considering entering and fear of being left out in the cold after a year or two with no place to go, but having the work ethic and talent to have been accepted at other schools where this would not happen. It seems that some of these cut students are doing pretty darn well. That doesn't fit the image of "failing" and not making the grade to continue in a program.

I don't have the full picture but the school does need to concern itself with what others are reading because so many students I know are NOT applying to this program over these issues, no matter how good the program is. PR is important and people do come to this site to glean information and a variety of perspectives. I think the students who have shared here, have for the most part, done so in a respectful tone and it is helpful to gather many perspectives and experiences so that one can weigh the big picture.

PS....Does anyone know the CRITERIA used for cutting? Is this outlined? What are the benchmarks?

ComedyTragedy34

Ok.
I am a current theatre arts student at U of A right now, and have a few comments about all this.
First of all, I feel the need to defend the program in the opening paragraph, then do the unfavorable things later. Just to start off on a positive note. There was a comment about a rumor at the unifieds that all of the MT girls from the freshman last year were cut. That is very incorrect. From what I remember, only 3 girls were not advanced, and only 1 boy was cut. The fact that the Juniors this year had a large number of people cut has nothing to do with years before that or after that. Each class is different and treated on an individual basis. I, too, have asked about the "criteria" used for the cuts, and the school of theatre arts office was happy to give me information on it. This has to do with work ethic, improvement, professional potential, etc...so, basically, all the things any school would, or should, look for in a student. If these things are not seen in a year, or even two, what do you do? ALSO, all the students are aware of the cut system in the program. I have friends who are BFAs and they, although worry about the cuts, do know they exist and are prepared.
And now the cons. They cut. Yes. Wow. It's out there now. Some people are cut and are mad about that, but that does not mean that EVERYONE who gets into the school is cut, or that if one class has large cuts EVERY class after that will be slaughtered. I have heard from various people that the faculty has/gives notice, hints, personal meetings, etc. to those who are in danger of not being advanced. That means that these people can try to fix what is not working and maybe secure their position by working harder than they thought they had to originally, right? Just a thought.
So, some parting words.
Rumors are called rumors for a reason. Question. Doubt. Find the truth.
Go to the source. Don't rely on others to get the dirt.
Every program is going to have its faults. Why is this one such a big deal?
Watch project runway. its amazing.

loverleecait

I'm still waiting for my letter... Does each student who auditioned get a letter, regardless of whether it's a rejection or an acceptance notice? Or are letters only mailed out to those who got into the program?

When I talked to current U of A students at the audition, the range of time in which they received word from the School of Theatre Arts as to their admissions decision seemed to span from one week after the audition to about a month after... Also, one girl said she never got a letter, but was e-mailed her acceptance.

I'm trying to be patient, but it's stressing me out!

rising1

I'm a current Musical Theatre BFA freshman at the University of Arizona and one thing that is not being addressed is the other indication of how we as performers are doing other than grades.

At the end of the semester each student in our class had to meet with the entire Acting and Musical Theatre faculty member, who went down the line to tell us our strengths and weaknesses, and what they thought we needed to work on to ensure advancement in the program.

I can't speak about the students cut in the past couple of years, but from what I've been told from the upperclassmen (I know, who wants to hear more rumors but it's all I can give you) that work ethic was a major factor in why they weren't advanced.

I can definitely see why I should check this site, with all the misinformation going on - and Professor Bagwell is just answering questions, there's no need for people to try and trap her in a war of words.