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Berkeley Is Negotiating Deal With Saudi University - Chronicle.com

What do y'all make of this?

also: http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/r...04_kaust.shtml

the deal was finalized

kyledavid80

I'm not quite sure what I think of it. Is the 'men-only' caveat included in the deal with Berkeley or not?

So I can see why Berkeley went after this.

But wow, the university will be established in 2009, and will have an endowment larger than any American university except HYPSM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Abdullah_University

Steph747

thats because of all their blood oil, this is pocket change to them
and its all our money anyway, so I guess Berkeley just wants it back

h2x_jump

I was listening to NPR and they were talking about this, the college is not supposed to be men only when it opens.

Steph747

beejay, do you realize that it WAS OUR money? stolen from our economy, which is suffering quite a bit right now in case you havent noticed. And the people who are funding this university are ONLY THE MOST ELITE PEOPLE OF THE COUNTRY. the hundreds of princes who sit on their throne, shroud their wives and suppress their children? And not to mention the hundreds of people that have lost their lives in saudi america (and other nearby countries) in situations akin to the blood diamonds dibacle in Angola and Sierra Leone?



and if you are going to get all up in arms about something, maybe you should rethink calling someone retarded and/or stupid, that is highly offensive and not to me, but to people that actually suffer from mental retardation. We unfortunately live in an america where people like you go around on your high pompous horses, belittling everyone around you so that you can at least relieve your suppressed conscious from your napoleon complex. It is not appropriate nor, dare I say the highly cliched term, politically correct.

Steph747

and btw, that second comment I made was more or less very sarcastic. "and its all our money anyway, so I guess Berkeley just wants it back"


I think we all realize that it is "their raw material", and, referencing the situation in angola and sierra leone, diamonds were their raw material too, and our money (and money from many europeans etc) went to go buy guns basically for the tirading regimes, who, you may or may not have heard, but im hoping you have, employed a lot of kids do blow up their own refuge parents.

Beejay

Could you please elaborate on how it was ''stolen'' from you? Also, your statement is quite vague and only reflects upon your true ignorance. This is why Mr.Bush went and started unneccesary wars around the world and ruined our economy, people like you.


I'm actually ashamed that people like yourself end up in ivy league.

Steph747

Im not generalizing about you, I dont make hyperbolic statements like "people like [me] end up in the ivy league" and how my statement only "reflect on [my] true ignorance" and that "people like [me]" started a war... um why dont you please elaborate mister? Where is your proof? How do you expect to get into berkeley if you cant even support your own statements? Maybe look at this ridiculous pseudo-conversation we are having as practice, but you got to actually say something without sounding like an online tantrum.

and I didnt say anything was "'stolen' from [me]". That was an exaggeration used to make my point, of course it wasnt literally stolen!! OUR government and our companies gave them that money for the "natural resource" b/ we need it and our technology isn't utilizing any other resource.

Beejay

So what else would you like to tell us about Saudi? Miss know it all wrong.


Yes Saudi has princes, yes women are under strict rules, and yes children are raised up rough, BUT they choose to live that way. See, this is why Americans are going down, we want everyone to follow our lifestyle. Trust me, I speak from personal experience. I have lived in 6 Middle Eastern countries (now in the UAE), and people choose to live this way.

So who are you to claim that people there are supressed?

Steph747

I never said I wanted them to follow "our lifestyle" again you chose to generalize. I think you might just be a lost cause, unfortunately. I dont appreciate the american approach and i dont appreciate our lifestyle all that much either, but you wouldnt know that because you like to put me (and possibly other people) in categories.

I have not traveled to Saudi Arabia, but my father has worked with a saudi prince who came out here, and I have spoken to his children and his wife. I didnt feel the air of some people who enjoy their own lifestyle after seeing "our lifestyle".


But do you notice that ur first comment was removed? because of how offensive it was? Why have you knit picked out of what I have said instead of realizing ur mistake? and btw it wasnt me that reported your "problem post" other cc people reported it.

TimeCruncher

This issue warrants discussion by people thoroughly familiar with the nuances of constitutional law. I am not one of those people; however, I question the constitutionality of the UC Berkeley-KAUST agreement because the Framers of the U.S. Constitution made provisions to protect the United States from influence by foreign governments. According to the U.S. Constitution:

1) Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 states: (The Congress shall have the power) To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

2) Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8 states: No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

3) Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 states: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

4) Article I, Section 10, Clause 3 states: No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

UC Berkeley is a (state) government-supported public university. KAUST is also a government-supported public university. The UC Berkeley-KAUST agreement appears to be an alliance between the State of California and Saudi Arabia in violation of the U.S. Constitution.

The California Constitution's Article IX, Section 9, which establishes the University of California as "a public trust," states: "... The university shall be entirely independent of all political or sectarian influence and kept free therefrom in the appointment of its regents and in the administration of its affairs...." Saudi Arabia is a foreign state which uses the Qur'an as its constitution, and bases its government upon the Sharia (Islamic law). It appears that in agreeing to accept money from and provide services to Saudi Arabia, UC Berkeley has violated the California Constitution by administering its affairs subject to political and sectarian influence.

I don't question the constitutionality of the UC Berkeley-KAUST agreement (as well as the constitutionality of the University of Texas at Austin-KAUST agreement) simply because KAUST is a Saudi public university. I would question the constitutionality of such an agreement no matter which foreign government was involved. Stanford University, a private institution, has more autonomy in agreeing to accept foreign government funding in exchange for academic services; however, I question whether UC Berkeley (or any other U.S. state taxpayer-supported public university) has the autonomy to enter into any such agreement with a foreign government.

If there are federal and/or state constitutional scholars among CC's members, it would be interesting to hear from you regarding this issue.

double

new email from COE Dean:

Dear Friends of the College of Engineering,

Yes, it is a bold foreign partnership that has generated considerable controversy. But it is also an unprecedented opportunity for UC Berkeley to get involved at ground level in building a new research university, performing stellar multinational research, and facilitating constructive relationships in the Middle East.

The collaboration with KAUST, King Abdullah University of Science and Technology in Saudi Arabia, has involved a careful consensus-building process with many college and campus constituencies, including engineering faculty, the Chancellor, the Provost, the Academic Senate Task Force on Industry–University Relations and its Committee on the Status of Women and Ethnic Minorities.

Our esteemed Department of Mechanical Engineering will help KAUST build its faculty and academic curriculum in return for a substantial gift over the next five years. The funds will support joint research as well as ME’s own graduate fellowships and lab equipment. For the joint research, projects of mutual benefit to California, the Middle East and the world have already been identified in the areas of seawater desalinization, creation of lightweight construction materials and development of renewable energy sources. The department will also allocate some of the funds to increase its efforts to recruit and retain women faculty and students.

The funding, although welcome, is not the prime motivating factor. Here we have a chance to participate visibly in a truly global research enterprise that is positioning itself as one of the leading research institutions in the world. KAUST is committed to being a genuinely co-educational institution, an isolated but noteworthy reversal of Saudi Arabia’s tradition of excluding women, Israelis, homosexuals and those outside the Islamic faith. We are optimistic that KAUST has the potential to be a bubble in the kingdom, maybe even a beachhead, signaling a new infusion of the ideals that we at Berkeley take for granted as inseparable from an open academic environment that is home to the citizens of the world.

I welcome your thoughts and ideas.

S. Shankar Sastry
Dean, College of Engineering
NEC Distinguished Professor of Electrical Engineering and Computer Sciences

CalX

This is a pretty populist and superficial take.

Actually, it's the other way around. Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States are in many ways American colonies. Their subservant status has helped the US live above its means.

Example: The currencies of S.A. and the Gulf states are tied to the US$, which props up the currency and provides dividends to the US economy. When Japan or the UK buy Saudi oil, they have to pay that transaction in US$, effectively being forced to buy US debt. Without this, interest rates in the US would have to be a lot higher, and the US$ would be much more depressed than it is now.

S.A. and the Gulf States have taken a big economic hit because they can not diversify their reserves by selling $ and buying euros and float their currencies, their economy would do a lot better had their currency not been tied to the US$. They have pretty high inflation rates owing in good part to their US$ currency exposure.

As well, the current cultural climate in Saudi Arabia is excessively conservative and religious because its government (royal family) uses religion to establish their legitimacy as rulers, which is threatened by the fact that they are tightly propped by the US.

juliushark

there is no such thing as OUR MONEY, the economy is global money circulates. "Your money" use to be the European's, which use to be the Holy Roman Empire's money, which use to be the byzantines' money etc etc etc.

stalker

That's a wise move on the past of the Saudis. They are approaching the peak of their oil production and it will have to switch to manufacturing and IT if it wants to maintain its living standards in the long-term, something that at the moment it is woefully unprepared for.