spellingbead

http://www.ucop.edu/news/factsheets/...ofile_2008.pdf

Theres the data. Anyway, you can see that in terms of SAT scores and ELC UCI is placed 4th, just like how its 4th for acceptance rates. Everywhere else its pretty much tied with UCD and UCSB, and it does have the lowest acceptance rate of low API scores, but that could be considered a good thing.

collegemom16

"To get good grades at a crappy school is not a difficult feat."

Try it sometime and get back to me on that....There is a reason that this is weighted heavily.

I don't make the criteria I'm just telling you what it is.

collegemom16

by SAT scores (combined) UCI is ranked 6th not 4th.
UCB
UCLA
UCSD
UCD
UCSB
UCI
UCSC
UCR
UCM

It is not tied for number of A-G courses either.
by A-G courses (number taken)
UCB
UCLA
UCSD=UCD
UCI
UCSB=UCSC
UCR
UCM

UCI is last for low API and 6th for ELC. How exactly is it a good thing to lock out underprivileged students from attending a UC and having a chance at a future? Try growing up poor without tutors, money for EC's and for many students, food on the table. Try having substandard teachers, being in an unmotivated environment and not having enough books to go around. Try attending a school where there are little or no AP's and tell me how that works for you.

tr1p7s

thank you collegemom, i was waiting for some1 to point that out

ShoeFactory

"To get good grades at a crappy school is not a difficult feat."

I meant difficult in comparison. Inherently, to be better than worse students is easier than being better than better students at a school that is more competitive. I have friends that got straight A's in high school but now are struggling in college although they work hard. I went to a very competitive high school, and everyone says college is definitely easier than high school. That is the difference between bad schools and good schools.

I know you didn't give me the criteria. But you argued that UCI needs to improve it, implying that you believe diversity makes a school academically more competent. Don't give me that crap about you just presenting the facts.

collegemom16

No ShoeFactory, UCI needs to improve their API and ELC acceptance rates to rise in ranking. It is simply a fact. It is one of the ranking criteria.

And as for your difficulty comparison, we will just have to disagree. My kids go to a top high school and it was very competitive. I however realize the HUGE difference for a kid growing up poor in a crummy high school. The amount of motivation it takes to succeed in that situation is 100 times what it takes for a student with wealth or even a student from the middle class.

nononana

hey collegemom16, is ur kid going to UCI?

apparently not.

BirdKiller

Guys, please lay off the flames against Collegemom. She's been a great user here at CC such that I seriously doubt she has any bias against UC Irvine.

It's okay to argue, but something like a post above is just immature.

spellingbead

Collegemom read the link that I posted, UCI IS ranked 4th for SAT combined unless you include BK (whatever the hell that is) in which place it would be 5th, it's above Davis and UCSB. Same thing with ELC, look at the data.
Low API means it's easier to get a good GPA, high schools that have low API's are BAD schools, therefore it should be EASIER for exceptional students to stand out, maybe become valedictorian or something.

BirdKiller

If that post above was an insult against me, had I had such large influence in average SATs for my university, then mine would've placed it higher.

COMBINED [Critical Reading + Math + Writing] of Fall 2008

1. UCB: 2014
2. UCLA: 1988
3. UCSD: 1935
4. UCD: 1851
5. UCSB: 1845
6. UCI: 1834

ShoeFactory

Going to a mediocre school DOES NOT MEAN that your kid is facing socio-economic barriers. My family is well off, and had i stayed in my district (I transferred out to a better school), I am confident I would have gotten at least nearly straight A's and been top 3 at my local high school. (My friend from middle school is valedictorian from that school, and I beat him on SAT and test scores. And we both agree I am smarter than he is.) And had I went to that school and been valedictorian, I would've had a huge advantage in admissions to other schools without the disadvantage that you claim people go to low API schools have. Thus low API does NOT mean that people that go to that school are poor. It means students are less studious.

If your school has low API scores, it does not mean you are facing socio-economic barriers. Correlation does not imply causation. It is a logical fallacy to assume that if you go to a low API school that you need 'more motivation to succeed.' On the contrary, you need less motivation to be at the top of such a school.

If people don't have the motivation to be at the top of their crappy high school, there is NO WAY they will do well at competitive public colleges like the UCs. It is ridiculous to give admission to someone who did not try very hard in HS at a crappy school over someone who tried their hardest, but had a hard time pulling top grades because they went to a highly competitive high school.

jas0n

First off, let’s consider the rankings everyone pretty much relies on – US News. Below is a link to their Undergraduate ranking criteria and weights. If you notice, there are no sections that are related to “accepting students from different socio-economic backgrounds”. Think about it. The top private schools don’t exactly do much of that.

America's Best Colleges 2008: Undergraduate Ranking Criteria and Weights -- U.S.News & World Report

We already know that every UC takes into account socio-economic disadvantages. UCI does this just like every school. We can already see US News does not even factor in something like this. Why are you pulling out a small detail to put down UCI among the other UCs? Low API scores definitely doesn’t always determine the economic background of a high school. I came from a district that had NO school meet the California target API. California’s grade school public education system is pretty bad, and we all know it. High schools with worse economic backgrounds in other states can beat a high school in California with better economic standing.

collegemom16

"Why are you pulling out a small detail to put down UCI among the other UCs?"

This was never my intent. I was only pointing out the much larger array of critera for rankings.

This relates directly to ELC. US News does count this as very important.

High school class standing. The proportion of students enrolled for the academic year beginning in the fall of 2006 who graduated in the top 10 percent (for national universities and liberal arts colleges) or 25 percent (master's and baccalaureate colleges) of their high school class.


UC admissions highly value socio-economic diversity. This Peer assessment rating is 25% of the schools ranking position.

Peer assessment. How the school is regarded by administrators at peer institutions. A school's peer assessment score is determined by surveying the presidents, provosts, and deans of admissions (or equivalent positions) at institutions in the school's category. Each individual was asked to rate peer schools' undergraduate academic programs on a scale from 1 (marginal) to 5 (distinguished). Those individuals who did not know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average score of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school. The survey was conducted in the spring of 2007, and about 51 percent of those surveyed responded.

Sorry shoefactory but once again I respectfully disagree. Your information while intersting is anecdotal. Low API means a lack of tax base to fund the school. On the whole it means the school is located in a low income area. Sure there can be exceptions, but overall this IS true.

"Thus low API does NOT mean that people that go to that school are poor. It means students are less studious."

This statement is outrageous.

"If people don't have the motivation to be at the top of their crappy high school, there is NO WAY they will do well at competitive public colleges like the UCs."

Except that it happens all the time. What it takes for a poor kid from a low performing school to succeed translates into a very motivated student. The UC's know exactly what these students are up against and provide them with a great deal of educational support.

"If people don't have the motivation to be at the top of their crappy high school, there is NO WAY they will do well at competitive public colleges like the UCs."

We are talking about low API and ELC. Where did you get the notion that these students did not perform well at their underfunded and low performing schools?

ShoeFactory

Because a school is in a low income area does not mean all the students that go there are poor. It's not uncommon enough to find middle class students in a poorer area that you can call it an 'exception'. The criteria is just too rough to make a judgment based on API.

How does low API mean that students are NOT less studious? Studious students get higher scores.

The thing is that it doesn't take much for a poor kid from a low performing school to succeed in terms of academic achievement. Admissions cannot infer hardship from the API of their school, only the essay so low API shouldn't even be considered. If a student wants to claim hardships then they can do so on their essay, but getting an extra benefit from going to a crappy school is ridiculous.

The circumstances of students are SO DIFFERENT that you cannot judge them all the same from API. You make a very gross and rough connection between low API and financial situation; there is a correlation, but it would be untrue for many students.

worriedsenior

ShoeFactory,

I don't know numbers on top of my head, my guess is that the correlation between low API scores and poor financial situations is very high. Sure, there are exceptions like case, but that's why they are exceptions. Most kids do suffer hardships when they attend a bad school. Have you ever ask why your parents took you to a different school? I'd guess it's because they don't want you to fall into the bad crowd.

It is harder to be motavated when you go to a school where no one studies. This is normal human behavior. Most of the time, you are who you hang out with. It is always true? no, but it's often the case. It takes a lot to stand out from a low API school, it may not be as easy as you suggested.