CoachC

Prof. -

No typo, I gotcha - I addressed my post to students and parents b/c that is my natural inclination as a teacher (and I know they constitute the majority of readers here).

I think it's great that you are posting and reading here, and your program is very lucky to have someone as passionate and dedicated as you obviously are! I wish you and your program great luck - we always need more great places for our talented kids to train!!!

CoachC

Mary Anna

to Prof.
Thanks for the clarification. You are correct. MT is an emphasis or minor in the BA in Theatre degree. But it has it's own audition for admission.
I like their audition for MT. It includes two monologues and two songs and a dance component. Very complete.

kedstuff

I'm not knowledgeable enough about the Forum to accomplish this myself but I believe CoachC's post about how to evaluate programs belongs in a thread with that subject as a topic---it's a very helpful guide and won't be seen by enough readers within this thread on West Coast programs. It might even be a helpful addition to the "Big List" page http://www.geocities.com/musicalthea...s/biglist.html, similar to the statement on the differences between BA and BFA programs. If anyone can help accomplish this, I would recommend it!

dancersmom

Coach C,

I agree that the U. Michigan list of questions to ask in evaluating an MT program is wonderful. I originally posted the list in February 2004. I really don't think that anyone from U.M. will mind my sharing it here. So, here's a copy of my post from last year:


I thought I'd share some information I received from the University of Michigan. They hand out an excellent paper to prospective students with questions to ask in evaluating MT programs. Here they are:

1. What kind of degree is offered? BFA? BA? (These 2 degrees are philosophically quite different.) Is the BFA designed specifically for MT, or just for theatre in general?
2. How large is the program? Where do the students come from? What is the make-up of the student body? Does the size of the university have an impact on the program?
3. What is the response of current students? Is the environment at the school supportive, creative, stimulating? Do casting policies for productions seem fair and ethical? (It is particularly useful to speak with seniors and graduates.) Does the program have a philosophical approach to education/training which is clearly stated to the students?
4. Where are the graduates working?
5. How large are the classes, especially those which are performance related?
6. What is the faculty/student relationship? Ratio? Do the students primarily have faculty members as teachers, or graduate assistants?
7. How many musicals are presented each year? What are the casting policies? How are the shows chosen? What are examples of past productions?
8. Does the school promote new works?
9. Do the students have opportunities to be in plays as well as musicals? What about opera, dance concerts, films, and recitals?
10. Do the students have the opportunity to perform in theatres of differing sizes (opera house to "black box") and differing styles (proscenium to in-the-round)?
11. Are the students taught specifically about the field as a profession, and how to go about making a living after they graduate? (Equity, agents, casting directors, audition techniques, commercial and non-profit theatres, etc.)
12. How well do the music department and the theatre department cooperate? Dowes the school have a dance department? (Almost always, the real success of a musical theatre program lies at the core of the inter-disciplinary relationship of these three areas.)
13. Does the faculty work professionally away from the school?
14. How often does the school bring in professionals to work with or speak to the students?
15. Does the school have a cut or review policy? What are the standards a student must maintain in order to remain in the program, and how is this monitored?
16. How complete is the school's library of musical theatre resource materials? (Songs, scores, scripts, vocal books, etc., are often rare, unpublished, or out-of-print.)
17. Is the program of department firmly established? How long has it been in existence? How is it regarded by people in the profession, such as casting directors and agents?

Prof. Himmelheber

I have taught in three states, including the wonderful educational system in Iowa (academics are very important there), and I can tell you that the CSU System general education requirements are higher than at many schools nationwide (usually 36-45 semester units of GE). Since my comparison of GE is between "semester" and "quarter" systems, I'm breaking it down to the number of classes required (should be comparable whether condensed to a quarter or spread out over a semester). Again, this is only information gleaned from each school's catalog - please correct me if I'm wrong.

GE REQUIREMENTS:

CSU requires 16 semester (51 semester units) of general education, and our BFAers get no "double dip" (a class that meets gen ed. taken from within your own dept., meaning both Theatre and Dance)

UCI requires 19 quarters (a different system) of gen eds, but a student may include 3 classes from within the discipline - so it works out to 16 courses in gen ed., plus 3 more that may be discipline-related (supportive of the major more than gen. ed.)

AT UCLA, only 10 courses (48 units minimum) are required, including three classes that may be taken from within their own major - so it works out to 7 courses in gen ed., plus 3 more that can be from within the discipline.

GPA MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS:

All schools use the plus/minus grading option.

CSUF: A 2.0 "C" or better in all gen eds., and a 3.0 "B" or better in all major work. Reasoning is this: pass with an acceptable "C or better" in your gen eds, and maintain superior level work "B or better" in your major.

UCI: Overall GPA of 3.2 (just over a 3.0 which is "B," but not a "B+" which is 2.3), with 3.4 in all major work (just over a "B+"). This GPA is an AVERAGE - no minimum-per-course stated in catalogue, meaning a "D" and an "A" average to a high "C" or low "B"...). This school sets very high standards overall, but the dept. using an "average GPA" doesn't speak well for the academic expectations in-house.

UCLA: A 2.0 "C" average is required in ALL coursework, including upper division work in the major...not very "academically strenuous," in my opinion (both gen ed and major expect an average of "acceptable C." And again, this is an AVERAGE GPA, not a per-course minimum (so students may receive D- grades without any academic probation or action, as long as the C average is maintained overall.

PROGRAM GOALS:

I also find it interesting to compare the stated goals of the programs: either vocational or interest-based.

CSUF BFA program goal is to prepare the student for a professional career - a professional training program. "This degree is for students who desire a professionally oriented education and training in musical theatre" (quote from catalog). BFA students may double-major or minor, but it is not recommended (the BFA courses must be taken in sequence, not allowing ample units/time to study second degree).

UCI's BA (with honors) program is "designed for students who, while not necessarily planning to make the theatre their vocation, have a serious interest in the literature, theory, and practice of drama, as well as for students preparing to work professionally in the theatre, often after more specialized training at the graduate level" (quote from catalog).

UCLA's BA (with special emphasis) program "provides a liberal education by combining critical study of theater with experiential practice in one or more of its component parts. Students explore acting, design, directing, playwriting, and production to build a foundation for future creative work" (quote from catalog). Students cannot double major.

DANCE REQUIRED:

Also, curriculum-wise, dance is highly emphasized (equal to voice and acting) at CSUF. Students must successfully complete intermediate ballet, intermediate jazz, and advanced tap, in addition to the admitted majors all receiving two semesters of musical theatre dance as well as a ton of quickly taught, difficult choreography in three semesters of the revue performance class.

UCI requires two quarters of ballet (any level, so both at the introductory level is okay) and these can be taken * Pass ("C" or better) / or Not Pass ("C-" or worse) per the dept. Once accepted in the program, only one quarter of musical theatre dance, one of jazz, and one of tap is required.

UCLA requires 3 musical theatre dance courses as prereqs to auditioning for placement in program, and then only "Dance and Singing for the Musical Theatre" discipline electives, which are both voice and dance combined (meaning, it is a musical theatre class, NOT dance NOR voice specialty).

PASS/FAIL (or CREDIT/NO CREDIT) GRADING OPTION

CSUF: Does NOT allow any Credit/No Credit grading option for coursework counting toward degree.

* UCI: The Pass/Not Pass option is available to encourage students to enroll in courses outside their major field. Courses graded Pass or Not Pass are not included in computation of the grade point average which appears on a student's permanent record

** UCLA: University rules essentially allow students who are enrolled in at least 12 units to take one P/NP course each quarter, or two if they have not taken a P/NP course the preceding quarter).

VOICE LESSONS OFFERED/REQUIRED:

CSUF requires and provides private voice lessons to students admitted to the program, for four semesters (junior and senior year).

UCI degree includes one quarter of private voice lessons for the advanced musical theatre student. This course can be repeated nine times for credit, but the dept. only requires the one quarter (so any extra means "non-degree elective," and enrollment is likely based on how many students they need to accommodate that semester...not a given.

UCLA's degree doesn't include private voice lessons to majors.

keyboardmom

Wow!! Where was this when my son was deciding on schools? This is exactly the kind of comparison we needed. Of course there are many other factors to consider when choosing, but this is a terrific beginning. Are you sure voice lessons aren't included at UCLA for sophomore, junior, and senior years? I recall asking specifically about this and that was my understanding....three years at UCI also.

Prof. Himmelheber

UCI has them AVAILABLE once you are accepted in the program, but if their program is anything like the many other M.T. with in-house voice lessons, the students who NEED the lessons are prioritized. Therefore, if they have their one semester of required work done, and others are waiting (remember, with the UCI Honors program there is no enrollment cap that is mentioned), they won't get school-paid private lessons.

UCLA has no mention of private voice in their curriculum online whatsoever. Lessons may be available, but again, if not required in the major then the school is likely not going to have the faculty and the money to offer this.

You can always call and ask them point blank, if you are really interested in their school. Something along the lines of, "how many quarters of private voice lessons does the school require, and how many are guaranteed to me if I am accepted (and interested in further study)," for example.

blacknwhite54

To Prof. Himmelheber: I guess my direct inquiry to you regarding school comparisons really hit the mark with the other members of this thread. Thanks again for your insight and for sharing this with other members.

happy days

For the students from CA looking for West Coast schools...you might check out the Arizona campuses. ASU has a BM MT with an emphasis on voice and UA has a BFA MT with more of an emphasis on acting.

KTsMom

Hi All! I have been reading these threads for over 2 years, but this is my first (and probably only) post! I want to give this thread something back, so here goes. We live in California, and my daughter will be attending UCLA this fall in the Theater Department with an emphasis in Musical Theater (yes, there really is such a thing, though fairly new!). I can empathize with kids and their parents looking for good MT programs, and wanting to stay in California, if possible, and finding a school that is affordable. I will share my impressions, and ask forgivness if I offend anyone who has chosen one of the schools that I mention not too positively. I know the right fit for a school is a very individual thing. Also, double check some of my facts if you are interested, because I was the tag-along mom, and it was my daughter who paid the most attention to details. If I got something wrong, I am sorry. Be that as it may, here are my musings and impressions. My daughter looked east coast, mid-west, and Calif. (Cal State Fullerton, UC Irvine, USC, and UCLA to name the west coast schools). She got into most of her choices. This forum is excellent for east coast and even mid-west schools, but I always found West Coast info. lacking. Let me tell you what we know about UCLA MT:

First of all, UCLA is a beautiful campus in Westwood (upscale neighborhood in LA), with dorms on campus, and an excellent food plan. Walking around the neighborhood at 11 pm at night, I saw in 1 hour 3 (seemingly harmless) homeless folks, and 3 police cars. Single women did not seem nervous to be walking around at night alone. The MT program accepts 14 MT students, expecting 10 to attend. Each year I believe there are about 40 Theater majors accepted (this includes directing, acting, ect.) per year. There were hundreds of applicants for MT, and only two auditions (2 weekends?) for students who were interested in MT (held in LA and Chicago!). In the audition she sang 2 contrasting songs,was taught a difficult/fast dance combination, and did 2 contrasting monologues. She was also interviewed by a professor in the theater department. The degree is a BA, but they describe it as a theater degree with an emphasis in MT. They also said " the program is so demanding that we consider it a BA program with a BFA program inside it". I am told by everyone I know that UCLA is a very academically demanding program, and very hard to get into. My daughter's GPA was 3.9, and the average admitted student's GPA is 4.2. I believe her audition helped her get in, because while in the low end of the ball park scholastically, if she did not apply to theater, she probably would not have been considered. They do not recomend double majors because the program is very demanding. You do not get voice lessons the first year in MT (a senior told me it was due to budget cuts), but if you continue in MT, you get private voice lessons from Soph year on as part of your course work. The senior we spoke with suggested paying for voice lessons the first year, so that when you audition the end of the second year, your skills are still up. He also suggested joining the choir to keep up your singing skills, and to meet other performers. First year students are encouraged to get involved in several of the opportunities for student productions, student films, and other projects. There are many opportunities to "work on your reel" which I am told is like a DVD version of an acting resume that you can shop around to places for jobs. Juniors and Seniors are cast in the larger productions put on by the school (the school feels they upper classmen are most ready). There are aparently many opportunities to meet with guest actors, directors, etc, and the school is very connected to the performing arts industry being close to Hollywood. UCLA is a much respected school in the LA area, and many alums come back to teack or do master classes. Students are encouraged to consider developing musical theater, television, and film acting skills there, though your degree will be in theater. My daughter was accepted as a MT student, and she will have to again audition in the end of her Soph year in order to continue in MT. If for some unlikely reason she did not pass this audition, she would remain a theater student, but would not be considered an MT student. I believe some classes would not be available to her (in MT), should she become a straight theater major. You are required to take dance every year, which includes Ballet, jazz, tap and modern (I am not sure how much of each, but Ballet seemed to be emphasized the most).
For what its worth, let me share with you my impressions of the other schools in Calif. that we visited:

CSUF- Very welcoming students met my daughter at the door as she observed their class doing scenes from various MT shows. The halls seemed teeming with excitement and energy, as you could hear someone belting "Suddenly Seymore" from "Little Shop", the next door we heard bongos while someone was working out a dance solo, and the next door 50 kids in a tap class! One thing that I found discouraging about the tap class- I'd say that practicly 2/3rds of the kids were taking this class in either tennis shoes, or stocking feet! I do not know how one can possibly know tap without wearing the tap shoes to see if they are making the correct sounds! Isn't tap shoes considered standard equipment for a tap class??? Later that night we sat through the Spring Dance Show, and again I was disappointed because you could tell that with a few exceptions, the dancers did not seem to have enough control to sustain and execute the dance movements (you know when a dancer has to move to the next step because if they don't they will fall?...) I know that these are students, and they are still learning their skills. Maybe I am too critical here, but I guess I expected better. Also, the dances did not seem to have much variety to the style of dance- looked like mostly modern. We were looking for more variety. We met with the head of the theater department, and he indicated that students must auditon for the musical theater program by the end of Soph year, and that they take about 10 students. Those 10 are treated extremly well, and many get side gigs. The rest are theater majors for the remainder of their time. He also thought it was the only/best MT BFA program on the west coast. I don't know, but this part did not sound right to me. The other thing that sticks out is that they have very limited dorms on campus (6 students share apt style housing, hard to get in to), and no formal food plan, though some of the campus vendors and places off campus will acknowledge some kind of affiliation with the school. It is a commuter school, and having a car seemed necessairy to us. It is a state school, and in Calif. the budget has cut some of the nicities out, like landscaping. I remember mounds of dusty dirt where in better times, they probably would have landscaped it. My daughter considered this school early on as a "deep back-up". State schools are a bargin fiscally.
USC- Beautiful campus in the middle of a very depressed area of LA- I would worry about my daughter being alone after dark, and having to go several blocks to her dorms. The campus clearly has lots of money, for sports anyway, and one is impressed by the elaborate sports complex. The theater department however, which aparently does not have a MT emphasis per se, is a small, dark bungalo in the back of construction, in back of the large sports complex. This made me think that the theater department is not as well funded as I would have hoped. My daughter sat in on a drama class, felt it was very basis- basic like her first year drama class in high school. The instructor was nice, and engaged her in conversations in between giving feedback to students who were working on scenes. If you are interested in singing, I believe you have to make contact with the music department, so there did not seem to be an integrated program for MT. My daughter was not terribly impressed by what she saw, but she auditioned anyway. They did not have her sing, or dance- just two monologues. She knew this was not the school for her even before the acceptance letters were sent out.

UCI- Pretty campus, smaller than UCLA, and appeared more suburban. Dorms were on campus. My daughter sat in on a MT class, the instructor was excellent, and was giving the students good tips on auditioning skills. No auditions were necessary, and I cannot tell you much about the program, except to say that my daughter was accepted, but did not seriously consider this school.

Other California Schools that various folks out here mentioned that had fairly good reputations for theater programs, but we did not check out: Chapman, and Loyola Merrimount(sp?).
Hope these musings help generate more folks talking about California Schools. Sorry for a long post! Best of Luck to you all!

Prof. Himmelheber

I don't usually write in defense of my previous posts (either one accepts my opinions or not), but I feel compelled to defend CSU Fullerton in this case.

I am sure that the tap class you attended was a general education class, one that exposes the general college student to a variety of dance styles, and NOT a majors' class. The reason being? Our tap classes are large, but certainly not 50 students! Also, my colleague who teaches the majors' tap class is truly a STICKLER when it comes to being prepared, including timely attendance, and being dressed properly for the activity. Not having your tap shoes equates to an immediate absence, as you are not permitted to participate in that class (though you may stay in the room and observe, if you wish to stay on top of the new moves and combinations). The only possible exception would be if the floor were newly waxed, and students were instructed to tap in tennis shoes for safety reasons (slips are very likely on slick floors in taps, as you can imagine) - but this hasn't occurred since I have been here.

On the Dance Concert, yes - these are students, and primarily our DANCE BA students. Musical Theatre majors are in the main stage musical or drama/comedy productions, and will not (or sooooo very rarely, as with a 5th year senior who is asked to dance in a piece) be seen in a dance concert. The dance concerts here ARE primarily focused on modern, as are the majority of the programs in the nation. It is a major trend in dance education (easier on old, tired dancer bodies, believe me - this is a bonus for aging teachers, too), and this is the predominantly represented genre at dance festivals such as the Kennedy Center American College Dance Festival. However, our THEATRE dance students (BFA and BDA wannabees) don't take modern in their curriculum (because they will so rarely use it professionally): just tap, ballet, jazz, and musical theatre dance.

As to the state school not having enough money for landscaping?!? We are opening a brand new arts complex (we start moving in this fall semester, and have our official "gala" opening in January 2006) - doubling the size of our existing teaching facilities, rehearsal and performance spaces, shops, storage and offices. THIS AREA IS STILL CONSIDERED A CONSTRUCTION ZONE. Hence, the dirt mounds. (I can't understand how one could mistake state-of-the-art construction for neglect.) As we speak, there is re-landscaping work happening at the north end of the building (where there already was existing foliage: trees and bushes and grass), and at the main entrance to the new annex (that will greet visitors parking in our new parking garage). The new building plans have always included for "re-architecture of the landscaping," one of the final phases in the construction process. To view the current conditions of the building (and the complex itself, if you are interested) you can visit: http://www.fullerton.edu/campuscams/PerfArts.asp

Also, while online, check out our new Student Health Center addition, Student Recreation Center (construction just begun - open fall 2008), the newest parking garage (just begun and due for completion by July 2006), and the recently completed kinesiology and health science (gym). http://d-c.fullerton.edu/

I'll cover the housing and meal plans in a second post

Prof. Himmelheber

The dorm space are limited, true. But most of our students who are not freshmen (because they now KNOW other students well enough to choose them as roommates) opt for the plethora of local apartments. Within 2 miles, I can count at LEAST 25 apartment complexes, and countless "private home rentals," "garage loft apartments," "roommates to share" homes and apartments, and separate "mother-in-law homes" (on the back part of a property) to rent. Also, remember that dorms REQUIRE that you move out at the end of the semester, meaning your son or daughter will be madly packing and cleaning when they should be STUDYING FOR FINALS!, and they MUST be out by the specified date, no options. Whereas private housing, such as off-campus rentals, don't put people out on the street even when they desire to stay on through the non-school month(s) - the student has the choice as to the time/place for all moves.

As to a meal plan, true - there is none available (though the food services is working on developing one, per their meeting minutes). However, each dorm apartment has a kitchen that is equipped with a stove, refrigerator, microwave and dishwasher, so students may prepare their own food. There is a large supermarket about 3/4 mile away from campus, and a Dollar Store, Big Lots, Savon and Target, all within 3/4 mile, too (so students can get pretty much anything they need in the way of sustenance).

And if students don't want to/know how to/have time to cook, there is a food court in the Student Union, with salads, soups, burgers, mexican food, chinese food, donuts, muffins, scones, coffee, and juice bar available. Also in the Student Union is a pizza parlor (next to the pub and bowling alley), a nice italian cafeteria-style restaurant, and a movie theatre. Pretty nice complex, the Student Union. There are also a Healthy Choice (in Langsdorf Hall), two Starbucks, one (family owned) coffee vendor, various food carts, and a Carl's Jr. on the East side of the campus.

Then, within one mile, there are sandwich shops, a dozen fast food restaurants, Coco's, Sizzler, a pub, thai, chinese, and japanese food, korean bbq restaurants, and too many others to name here. Within two miles are a FABULOUS rib place (Texas Lucy's), a Red Lobster, a Bobby McGees, a microbrewery, Islands, and the Brea mall - which includes a food court. And within three miles there is the ritzy downtown Brea - a little pricey for my kid, but some students with more affluence LOVE to shop and dine there. Suffice it to say, CSUF students aren't at a lack for food sources.

And the expense of the food as opposed to a meal plan? Well, for one, the money my son is saving on tuition here (as opposed to UCI, UCLA or USC) is well spent on mocha lattes, healthy salads, meals and junk-food snacks.

And a reminder that the meal plans at most schools OFTEN do not include weekend meals (the most I have found is 19 meals per week, and that means only brunch and dinner, or breafast and lunch, on the weekends), and menus are offered during specific hours (meaning a late riser will miss breakfast, and a late afternoon/early evening class means no dinner before rehearsal). Most plans offer 14 meals per week - three meals a day (during only M-Th), and two meals on Friday, and nothing on the weekends.

At USC (2003-04 prices listed - not updated on their webpage!), most dorms, including ALL freshman residence halls and apartments, have REQUIRED meal plans (meaning, you HAVE to buy it, whether you want/need it or not!). If you don't select a meal plan when required, a default plan specified on your contract will be assigned and charged (so no way out of this one). For residents, the cheapest is The Cardinal Plan - $1941.00/school year, not summer months (and this plan is available to only selected residence halls)! This plan has TIME RESTRICTIONS (meaning, you get meals only during certain hours, but they don't publicize this well) and a WEEKLY RESET (meaning, if you don't use it you lose it at the end of the week). For your $1941/year, you get only 10 meals per week in either EVK or Parkside Restaurant (the latter serves only breakfast and lunch), $510 Dining Dollars that may be used in anytime in EVK, Parkside Restaurant and most retail dining venues (but if not used by end of year, they expire-no refunds), and one guest meal per month. You can "upgrade," exchanging your $510 Dining Dollars for an extra 10 meals a week (for 20 meals a week), but can be used only at EVK and Parkside Restaurant. If you are in the Parkside Suites Hall, the plan just mentioned will cost you $2067.00/year - the same meal plan offered, but more money (why is that?!?)... And if you want to upgrade (that is, if you don't live in two specific dorms), for only $2492/year, you can eat wherever you want, whenever you want. And the FRESHMAN PLAN is a discounted, declining balance, plan that resets at the end of each semester - $345 (not specified whether by the year, semester, or month, but I believe it is by the year - like a credit card purchased in advance for discounted meals; you'll have to follow up on this by calling Residence Life at USC, as I'm not sure and the website is very hazy on this plan). Their website estimates that undergraduates living on campus or off-campus in an apt. (not with parents/relatives) will pay $11,008/year for room and board for two semesters in 2005-2006.

Then, at UCI, room and board (for either dorms or on-campus apts.) is estimated to be $8,768/year (not counting summers). I would give you more specifics on required residence, costs, etc., but I can’t get through to their housing website right now: http://www.housing.uci.edu/index.asp. Approximately 30% of their students live on-campus (qualifying them as a commuter campus). Each residence hall has a small kitchen shared among ALL the hall residents, but no private kitchens in rooms (for health or dietary conscious kids, or those who just want a little midnight snack). Students who live in the residence halls participate in REQUIRED meal plans (like USC, you are required to participate in a meal plan, whether you want to or not). Meals are served cafeteria-style three times daily on weekdays (brunch and dinner on weekends). The halls close during the winter recess, and although they remain open during the Thanksgiving holiday and the spring recess, no meals are served. RATES: All rates are per school year (late September through mid-June). Meal plan rates: 19/week = 2,148/school year; 14/week = 2,160/school year; and 10/week = 1,920/school year. Students can also purchase an addition 50 meals per semester for $290; these meals will roll-over to the next semester, but expire in summer months (so they won’t carry over to next school year). Housing rates for the 2004-05 academic year were $9,772-$10,021 for a single room, $8,512-$8,764 for a double room, and $7,441-$7,693 for a triple room. (Rates vary by the meal plan selected.) Charges are paid in quarterly payments. RATES FOR 2005-06 WILL BE INCREASED. Finally, the apartments on campus are reserved for only graduate students, or undergraduates who are married and/or have children. There are privately owned apartments available on campus, from $575 to $905/month, based on how many share the room: http://www.vistadelcampo.com.

At UCLA, room and board are a package deal, so again, no option of severing meals from on-campus housing. Housing rates have quite a range, depending on how many students share one room (either two or three in all but the most expensive, which is a five-room suite, each room housing only one person). Likewise, he meal plan choices range from 11/per, their most basic plan, for students not on campus during weekends and for those who eat only two meals a day (meals don’t carry over to the next week); and up to 19/week, their most flexible plan, allowing for any missed meals during the week to be accumulated and used at any time during the quarter for additional meals or to treat family and friends to a meal (however, the accumulation starts over with each quarter). The package price ranges from $8,719/school year (3 in a room, and 11 meals/week plan) to $14,049/school year (private room in 5 room suite, and 19 meals/week plan).

At CSUF, our residence prices our certainly comparable (perhaps even less the other local three in comparison): for the 2004-2005 academic year (likely increased this year) are $4,356 double occupancy and $5,813 single occupancy. Note: NO TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE occupancy here. Fees do include a bed in a furnished, air-conditioned suite (includes a private kitchen); gas, electricity, water and Internet access.

Transportation to follow...

Prof. Himmelheber

As for having to have a car at CSUF, that simply isn't true. Case in point: two of our current BFA students do not have cars. Both work, go out with friends and get to school without problem (and neither has a BIKE, either; they walk for the exercise!). Personally, my son rides his bike to campus in 10 minutes (less time than it takes me to drive and park!), or walks the 1.5 miles in less than half an hour.

Also, many of our students ride their bikes, as the weather is rarely inclement enough to preclude this (except the rainy months in the spring). In the event the distance or weather does not permit biking, the bus system into the school is excellent (providing transportation in from all over the county), and the school subsidizes monthly bus passes (free, last I heard!). Also, there is a special bus line that runs in from the Fullerton Amtrack (train) station, so that students who live farther away (Riverside, Corona, Santa Ana, Capistrano, and beyond) can train in, and take a free shuttle bus to school. And Amtrack offers student discounts on monthly train passes, too.

At USC, they estimate undergraduate transportation costs to be $1362/year. Why is that, if they needn't have a car because they live on campus? Same thing at UCI - $1,193/year for transportation if living on campus. And UCLA estimates $729/school year (whereas a commuter expense here is estimated at $1,776). Very likely this fee estimate for those living in campus is for the expense students must incur hauling their stuff into and out of the campus twice per year (to vacate at the end of each semester/quarter).

And in LA, unlike in NYC, people need a car to get to casting directors' and agents' offices, and auditions and callbacks - plain and simple fact, widely accepted as gospel among the professional community here.

Whew! Hope I've covered it all...I get carried away, but feel passionately about knowledge and resources being shared (as we all do, or we wouldn't be here).

Prof. Himmelheber

In a word, no. Neither has a musical theatre program (though both have fine drama depts., and Chapman has a great film dept., too).

Sorry, but these aren't what the musical theatre student is likely looking for.

mtmommy

I think I've posted in the past about my son's dorm room at Cal State Fullerton. By getting him on the list early for a dorm room, he got into the brand new apartment-style dorm rooms as a new freshman. This "dorm room" had four boys sharing an apartment complete with kitchen, living room, 2 bathrooms, and -- oops -- I can't remember how many bedrooms, except that even with four boys, my son had his own tiny bedroom. Security and monitoring was good and the students were friendly. The apartment's kitchen allowed them to stock up on what they like to eat and drink (for example, lots of bottled water) and to eat more healthily if they so desired. I agree that Fullerton is mostly a commuter campus, but as Professor Himmelheber said, the campus is surrounded by many many apartment complexes. The apartment-style dorm prepared my son for living in his own apartment after freshman year.

My son is not an MT major, but if anyone has specific questions about his experience living at Fullerton, feel free to PM me.