College Discussion

Go Back   College Discussion > College Admissions and Search > College Majors > Musical Theater Major > Musical Theater Schools > University of California - Los Angeles MT

 
Welcome to College Discussion at College Confidential, the Web's leading discussion forum for college admissions, financial aid, SAT prep, and much more! You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, etc. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
   College Confidential is dedicated to providing the best free college admissions information available on the Web, through our many articles and this discussion forum.

This welcome message goes away when you register and log in!
Discussion Menu
Discussion Home
Help & Rules
Latest Posts
NEW! College Visits
NEW! Stats Profiles
Top Forums
College Search
College Admissions
Financial Aid
SAT/ACT
Parents
Colleges
Ivy League
Main CC Site
College Confidential
College Search
College Admissions
Paying for College
Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-22-2005, 03:42 PM   #1
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 31
West Coast MT Schools

I've just discovered this great forum. My daughter is an incoming Sophmore in HS and MT is her life. We have some time to research schools but it's never too late to start. Of course NYU is her dream, but $$ is a problem. I'd love some input on West Coast schools. Heard about Cal State Fullerton. Does anyone have any first-hand experience there? Any other suggestions?
blacknwhite54 is offline  
Old 06-22-2005, 08:49 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: son at Elon in MT
Posts: 1,100
This school has been discussed several times - you might do a search. The most recent time I can find is information on Fullerton under the UC Irvine thread on the first page.
Ericsmom is offline  
Old 06-22-2005, 09:35 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: D is MT at OU (University of Oklahoma)
Posts: 501
I don't think we've ever had a student from Fullerton post on the MT forum. Many of us would LOVE to hear from a Fullerton MT student!! Or we'd even love to hear from a rising sophomore who has experienced freshman year, but hasn't been through the end of sophomore year audition yet! Same thing goes for a UCLA MT student!
mtmommy is offline  
Old 06-23-2005, 06:56 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 523
you might look at USC, UCLA and Fullerton. The academic expectations will be less at Fullerton because the California state school system is a bit less rigorous than the Cal. university system. Then there's, Chapman and Occidential. All have strong theatre departments and all programs are very different: BA, BFA, straight theatre, musical theatre. SOme, you pick your major after your freshman year.
Mary Anna is offline  
Old 06-23-2005, 03:04 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 523
to blacknwhite54: I just re-read your post and see that you are asking very specifically about musical theatre. I am so sorry I responded in haste. You are indeed corrrect, Cal State Fullerton is really the best for MT in California. UCLA's MT program is fairly new in comparison, but seems to also be an excellent choice. I like that the UCLA audition requires TWO monologues. Most MT only require one. Again, as I stated before, the admission requirements will be drastically different for academics. (assuming you are from out of state) Good luck to you and congratulations on an early start. That will serve you well!
Mary Anna is offline  
Old 07-12-2005, 08:35 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 441
UCLA vs. CSU Fullerton

Hate to say this, but UCLA is not a BFA in Musical Theatre (it is an emphasis in the BA program).

CSU Fullerton is a Musical Theatre BFA, and one of the best in the nation (per the Performing Arts Guide).

I am the program Coordinator, and would love to answer any questions. I'm new to the forum, and am not sure if I'll get a notice each time there is a post in response...so here's my contact info:

ehimmelheber@fullerton.edu

Sing your song!
Prof. Himmelheber is offline  
Old 07-12-2005, 09:27 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 100
hayhayden – you can get that college guide prof himmelheber is talking about at any barnes and noble or borders. it was published in 1998 and has never been updated. its rankings are also very suspect. the schools they list at the top in the drama section must be very good and i am sure cal state fullerton is great but it lists utah and san francisco state in the top 16 and leaves out cmu and ncsa which i KNOW aint right and it doesnt even mention otterbein. it does list tisch in the top 16 and that is cool with me! haha! it also doesn’t make a distinction between the bfa and ba programs and doesn’t list the mt programs with the drama schools and doesn’t rank them. they are hidden somewhere in the music majors part. oh .. amazon.com has it … http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846
notarebel is offline  
Old 07-12-2005, 09:46 PM   #8
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 99
Thanks for the info notarabel!

Ya...that does sound a little suspect...
hayhayden is offline  
Old 07-12-2005, 10:32 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 441
Have you a "less suspect" resource you might recommend?

I have only recently assumed the position of Musical Theatre BFA Coordinator at CSUF, and am learning an awful lot, awfully fast.

I would so much appreciate any recommendations as to more current Performing Arts Guides...more recent than Arco's 1999 edition, specifically.

Per Amazon, besides Arco there are only two others of this nature:

the Guide to Visual and Performing Arts 2005 (Peterson's Professional Degree Programs in the Visual and Performing Arts) 10th Edition [Paperback]; and

the Guide to Performing Arts Programs: Profiles of Over 700 Colleges, High Schools, and Summer Programs (Princeton Review Series) (Paperback)
by the same author as the Arco book (and published the same year, in 1998).

As for Petersons, Amazon has only one review ("suspect" for such a current and unique resource):
I bought and then returned this book. From the description I expected a guide with detail about the different schools and programs, as well as inside information on the schools. Instead, the book contains a couple pages about audition procedures (a much better description is in the Performing Arts Major's College Guide) accompanied by basic information that is easily available off of the school websites (location, number of students plus number of students majoring in the discipline, teacher/student ratios, etc.). It was impossible to tell which programs had a good reputation or better quality.

As for Princeton Review, Amazon had only 1 positive review.

As for Arco, Amazon has 5 positive reviews in 7 total.

I'm at a loss for where one obtains information that is "not suspect." And I don't believe everything I read on the internet, so please don't suggest that alone (besides, I'm already doing that by subscribing to this discussion thread).

Any advice you might offer would be greatly appreciated.
Prof. Himmelheber is offline  
Old 07-12-2005, 10:44 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: D is MT at OU (University of Oklahoma)
Posts: 501
I'll be interested to see what answers people can come up with for you. I've been reading this forum for almost two years, and I think this question came up a long time ago and nobody produced an answer. I came to believe that our "big list" (not ranked) is the best list of MT programs around. If we came up with our own ranked list, people would disagree about what elements are most important. Anyway, I'll be reading this thread to see if anybody else comes up with ranked lists that work for MT.
mtmommy is offline  
Old 07-12-2005, 11:19 PM   #11
wct
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: California
Posts: 419
When we started the "college search" a few years ago I went out and bought The Princeton Review Guide and The Arco Guide. I soon learned not to take everything I read in these resource books as gospel. They are good for getting a feel for what is out there, but it is not by any means a complete guide in any way shape or form. They have no real rating system and even if they did what would they base it on? Everything in this business is so subjective. That is why there are so many programs out there, because what is right for one student won't be right for another. It all comes down to personal taste. The most important thing is that you don't close yourself off to everything that is out there.

It never fails. Every year I hear "I want to go to NYU Tisch!" For some this is the best fit (because they have done their research), for others it is because they haven't taken the time to see what else is out there. They want to go because they want to be in NYC or because their friend is going there or because they heard how great it was. These are not the best reasons to go to any BFA or BA program. You have to find the place that fits you, that will provide YOU with the best training to meet your needs and wants.

So these "guides" should be used as one of the ways you can find out about the multitude of great programs out there. These "tools" can be added to your "tool belt" along with the CC forum, thespian festivals, internet research, college visits, interviews with college students, seeing shows at colleges that interest you, speaking to faculty, etc.

I really don't think you are going to find an accurate "ranked list" and if you did ask yourself, how did they come up with it?
wct is offline  
Old 07-12-2005, 11:43 PM   #12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 100
prof h - with all due respect, there isn't one but cmu and ncsa not near the top of drama? who are they kidding? look at their working alumni compared everyone else. they are top ten at least. it is best to do this for yourself and the best school is the one that is best for YOU. the rankings will be different for everyone. you could get the ratio of kids accepted compared to the number that auditioned but that wouldn't tell you too much because the good cheaper schools will have more kids auditioning and how hard it is to get accpted doesn't always say much about how good the training will be. thesbohemian is just a student like me but she wrote out a good way of looking at ba schools on the theatre thread and i think most of it applies to bfas in acting and mt just as well. it is a least a start and someone could rework it for mt. here is a link to that part of that thread. Theatre/Drama Colleges Part 7
notarebel is offline  
Old 07-12-2005, 11:45 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 557
In my longtime experience, first as a high school teacher and then as a vocal coach focused more exclusively on helping students prepare for conservatory auditions, there really is NO reliable list. In fact, those books are SO inaccurate I tell my students to stay away from them. Often, they simply reflect programs which have struck some kind of deal with the book publishers - as was just pointed out here, many of them don't even include CMU, for example, and NO ONE would deny that CMU is perpetually a top MT program!

The only thing that has EVER worked, in my experience, as a way of ranking MT schools is to:

1. First and foremost, talk to people who are ALREADY working, preferably at the New York level (and by this I mean Broadway or off - just being "in NYC" doesn't count) or top regional levels. They know whose work they respect and where those people have gone to school. Barring this possibility (and of course it is not possible for everyone), go to playbill.com and read the bios of people currently in shows - you'll see who has listed their schools, indicating that they are proud to claim affiliation, and which schools recur. This is highly significant because you see who is CURRENTLY working - and that doesn't reflect "fads" in the business, it reflects which schools' training is keeping up with hiring TRENDS - which is incredibly important!!!

2. Gather info from students at various schools and from excellent, INFORMED sources like this board to compile a list of what seem to be important factors both overall and for you as a potential student. For example, many places which claim to be "top programs" don't have senior showcases - and I can't imagine anyone from CMU, CCM, UM, or any of the other top schools that do big showcases saying "You're right, showcase is NOT important." Some definitely WILL tell you it didn't pan out - but for those whom it DID pan out, they certainly consider it important! Again, the showcase factor needs to be weighed after talking to people from VARIOUS programs WHO ARE WORKING AT THE TOP LEVEL!!!!

By the same token, many schools claim "impressive master class guests," "visits from working professionals," "many grads hired right out of school or while they are still in school," and "professionally working faculty" as if they are rarieties among programs. No no no! Rather, those should be MINIMUM requirements for a truly "top" program! ALL top programs have these elements - they are NOT rare! Nothing frustrates me more than having a student come back from a college visit espousing the "unique" excellence of a program only to have to be the bad cop and tell the student, "That's not uncommon" or worse "That's simply not true."

3. Know that you can get a GREAT education at a program that is NOT a "top" program. Most important is you need to find the best fit for YOU. However, as MT casting directors and directors see it, the factors indicating what makes a "top program" generally tend to be:

a. a highly developed skill set - this goes without saying - including acting, vocal technique, musicianship, dance or movement

b. audition readiness and excellence - how much a student or grad can come into the room "owning" his material, having made truly appropriate and STRONG choices in both material and the presentation of that material; having music which is prepared ABSOLUTELY correctly (oh, the stories of BFA programs who turn their kids out into the world kind of CLUELESS about such things - NO BFA grad should have to come to a private coach like me to learn about these things!); ability to take adjustments quickly and retain them

c. overall professionalism - knowing HOW to prepare for rehearsal and always BEING prepared, pleasant demeanor, etc.

d. working knowledge of the business of the business

e. the fact that the above three elements are evident ACROSS THE BOARD in a program's students (not simply evident in selected students from any program)


So students and parents, once you start to become familiar with the top schools (the standard list usually includes: CCM, CMU, NYU, UM, NC School of the Arts, BoCo, Northwestern - with MANY "2nd tier" schools such as Wagner, Otterbein, Point Park, etc.), be wary of any school that you haven't heard a lot about that claims to be a "top school." It may be GREAT academically, have great facilities, etc. - but that doesn't mean it is among those regarded as a top school by the people who do the HIRING. Again, people can go to school ANYWHERE and work - or not go to school at all!!! - but I get so frustrated (obviously) by schools which make false claims of "top school-hood" - it makes me think maybe those schools THEMSELVES are clueless about where they stand in the bigger professional picture, or perhaps even worse, that they are selling prospective students a false product. If a school aspires to enter the ranks of top programs and needs to recruit top talent in order to be able to do this, I think that school should be HONEST, just like college sports teams are (ok, in general ) when trying to lure D-I candidates to a D-II or D-III school: "We might not be School X, but we are building our program and we want players like you in order to be able to do so."

On that note, the University of Michigan gives auditionees an EXCELLENT list of "things to look for when choosing a Musical Theatre program" (not the exact title but something like that) - and it is NOT at all designed to favor Michigan. (That's another thing I have found with most truly top schools - they don't need to trumpet that they ARE a top school, because their product, the students and grads, are all of the PR they need.) The extensive list of questions ranges from "Do you want a B.A. or a BFA?" to "Where are grads working?" I always thought it was a shame that students didn't get this UNTIL their Michigan audition - perhaps the School of Music would share it if a parent or student asked for it. I don't feel is it appropriate for me to post the list here since it is truly such a valuable resource developed by UM and I wouldn't want anyone to appropriate it and claim it as their own.

Hope this helps some of you!
CoachC is offline  
Old 07-12-2005, 11:57 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 99
Such a WONDERFUL post CoachC, thanks.
hayhayden is offline  
Old 07-13-2005, 01:34 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 441
Thanks, Coach and all!

Great discussion, as always, on this thread.

Thank you, Coach, especially - your concise and educated responses are right on the money.

Sorry, I must have typoed - I just took over running the program at CSUF, and am not seeking programs personally. Merely trying to figure out how to best advise students who are interested in our program - this balanced opinion of the options available are invaluable to those seeking a program. We wouldn't be happy with a student who wasn't happy being here, after all. We want satisfied students, and graduates who continue to work nationally and internationally. That is our best hope to continue to build the program, and national interest in it.

You are all great - thank you for the passion and the knowledge you bring. It's a delight to have intellectual and intelligent conversations via this thread!

eve
Prof. Himmelheber is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

 


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:05 PM.


Copyright 2001-2008, CollegeConfidential.com, Inc., All Rights Reserved
SEO by vBSEO 3.1.0