MT in California? - Page 2

soozievt · 02-10-2006, 02:10 PM

VocalDad, I think Jason Robert Brown is wonderful and my D is very into his music and has performed it. What I read into the comment was that OCUMTInfo was saying one college offers classical voice as opposed to JRB as if the other schools do not teach the legit and traditional MT repertoire and they do, as well as contemporary MT repertoire like JRB. They include the gamut of MT, including the traditional fare, and they teach legit vocal technique. They just do not focus on or teach the classical repertoire which is more typical in a BM or VP major program. OCU is a BM program, by the way.

Like you, I think JRB is definitely tops and definitely worthy of study and performing and is a face in the contemporary MT landscape. I am not into this either/or way of thinking. To be successful in MT today, a young student ought to study legit singing, including the traditional Broadway repertoire but also the contemporary Broadway sounds that are in many musicals that are cast today. JRB is good, as you say, for acting the song. His material is overused in auditions but is wonderful for performing.

What I don't get is the knocking of programs that teach MT repertoire as being inferior to those that teach the classical vocal stuff. Classical is great and also good preparation. But a program that focuses on MT is a kind of training that is as good but simply different.

I think it would be far better to contrast PROGRAMS and what their focus is, than to imply that one is better than the other. One FITS a student better than another, that's all. Same with vocal training. Classical is not better than JRB either, but a different style of singing.

Also someone with a more classical bent is suitable for certain roles (such as in Piazza) and possibly not for other roles (such as in RENT) and then someone else who can sing the contemporary Broadway sound might be suitable for casting in The Wild Party or Avenue Q but not as much as in Pirates of Penzance.

A Broadway actor today in the MT world, needs to have a wide range of skills and be able to sing all sorts of styles, because that is what Broadway shows include these days. It is not an either/or world. You should be able to sing a classical sound, a legit sound, a contemporary sound, to be a versatile performer. Of course, some are stronger at one style than another.

Susan

MusThCC · 02-10-2006, 02:48 PM

I am also a huge JRB fan - but, I would like to think that possibly ocuMTinfo was NOT knocking him - rather, possibly referring to some MT wannabes whose knowledge of the field doesn't extend much beyond his songs, Wicked, and Rent. Not that there is anything wrong with those - but it is a tiny slice of the big MT pie. And anyone whose repertoire choices are that narrow is going to have a hard time competing with kids who live and breathe MT 24/7, and do have a mucher broader frame of reference.

ocuMTinfo · 02-10-2006, 04:12 PM

Of course I was not knocking Jason Robert Brown. He is a fine composer and creates some demanding music. We've done two of his shows at Oklahoma City University.

MusThCC hit it right on the head (thanks). I was using JRB as an analogy to what others schools choose for their students to work on. I know of a couple of friends at other MT schools who learn 5 songs each semester for their rep. They choose whatever they want and it's all MT music. They don't know any art songs, opera arias and such. They don't explore the other musical options of classical music. There's a world outside of Andrew Loyd Webber!! (now awaiting the "why are you bashing Webber" message).

Now, that's fine and you don't have to work on classic rep to make it on Broadway. But classical rep is much more demanding (in terms of voicing, structure and such) than the majority of MT music. At OCU, students lean four MT songs and four classic songs each semester. As stated above, that's what sets OCU apart from many other programs.

This is my opinion. If it doesn't agree with yours, that's quite fine. As I said above, OCU is a demanding program and not right for everyone.

vocaldad · 02-10-2006, 04:27 PM

Thanks for all of your responses to my post. I agree with you that a broader base of learning can be very beneficial. I was just concerned about the JRB reference, as if he were some piriah. I know his works can be overdone at auditions (although we are considering one for my S, yikes). I did NOT mean to question your premise; having a solid base in both MT and classical/art songs is fantastic for any performer.

Thanks for your thoughts.

vocaldad

soozievt · 02-10-2006, 05:24 PM

I'm not knocking classical rep either and it is a great background to have. I'm simply saying that each program differs in curriculum and philosophy and emphasis which doesn't then follow that one program is more "demanding" than another. Also, the analogy that JRB is what other schools choose to work on is not that accurate in my opinion (not that there is anything negative about JRB, of course). The difference, as I see it, is that your program trains in both the classical music repertoire and the MT repertoire, and that makes sense because it is a BM degree program. However, it doesn't then mean that other schools only sing songs such as JRB type repertoire. Other programs focus on the MT genre and that genre spans a great many years, not just contemporary Broadway. As a point of reference, my D does not get to choose the songs she is working on and in fact, the one she is assigned at the moment individually but in her group class (she also has private) is from well known long time Broadway composers and from a show written before 1960. I believe the songs she was working on before this were also from the legit MT repertoire going back quite a ways.

What each person wants in a program differs. Some programs emphasize all three skills equally....voice, dance, acting and some are heavy on the music training. One is not necessarily more demanding or better but just different. I don't think, however, that the contrast is quite the way you put it...that the programs that don't work on classical rep like arias and such, tend to work on JRB. Also, students don't necessarily pick what they are working on. My D is using this entire year to work on the areas she wants to improve, and is not even working on songs at all that showcase her strengths. She has remarked constantly at how much she has learned. So, no, they don't just work on stuff they pick or are good at. They are stretched. She has improved a great deal by the teaching. The song repertoire, however, does come from the MT genre. Many programs are demanding. They just have different philosophies and curriculum.

I would agree, however, with MusTHCC that some students prior to college, do not have a broad based background in the MT literature and only seem to know of Wicked, RENT, or JRB (notice what some pick for audition songs). It is crucial to be a student of musical theater history and of the material that exists.

MusThCC · 02-10-2006, 06:47 PM

Going back the original poster's comment "s is interested in mt and classical opera". I think that's what originally drove the original MT/opera comment. Yes, there are schools where kids are encouraged (or required) to cross over between MT and classical. OCU is one, as is BW. Probably most of the BM based programs. There are others where it would not be allowed. Not to say that everyone has to have classical chops to do MT, but if a student has the pre-college training, and the desire, then that should certainly be one of their criteria in college selection.

And, I agree with soozievt that programs have different curricula and philosophies, which don't make them wrong - just better "fits" for some kids.

That said, especially when you go beyond the schools most talked about on this list, there can certainly be a wide diversity in the amount of vocal training included in the program. When ocuMTinfo said
"I know of a couple of friends at other MT schools who learn 5 songs each semester for their rep. They choose whatever they want and it's all MT music." I totally believe that can occur, and that is the kind of kid that I was referring to - if they don't have the knowlege, exposure, etc. to a wide variety of MT material from all eras, and they don't have a ton of guidance in song selection, they can end up limiting themselves.
Vocaldad - JRB really seems to resonate with young performers, because as a contemporary guy, he is speaking more "in their voice". And, I agree, many of his songs are fabulous for their acting potential. I think the men's material is possibly not as overdone as the ladies', but if I were you, I think I may still try to find a different college audition song, OR at least make sure you find something much, much, MUCH earlier to balance it. Using for other auditions, I think he's fine.

Ericsmom · 02-10-2006, 08:16 PM

Wow - this is an interesting discussion and not at all about MT in CA!

Two things it brings to my mind. My son likes JRB also, and I think we heard that one should not use his songs at auditions because they are too hard for the accompanist to play, which we also heard about Sondheim. I hope I'm not getting my composers mixed up! My son enjoys music by both of these men. He also knows much more about it than I do.

In the discussion about MT programs, it's funny how we visited and looked at schools over about a 2 year period, and it is just now coming to light how different they all are in program offerings. We are so impressed with so many schools and think that many of them are wonderful. I can absolutely agree that what is best for one student may be totally different than what is best for another student. There are really no "best" programs but just different programs. I would encourage people following in our footsteps to concentrate on understanding the offerings and focuses of a program when you are visiting schools. Get down to details - what is studied in private voice lessons, how often and how long are the voice lessons, don't just ask if they get to take private voice.

Let me give you a few examples - for kids wanting MT - Student A wants to focus more on dance and is in love with Point Park, Student B wants that classical music focus and is determined to go to OCU, and Student C really wants to focus on acting in a program and is dying to get into Ithaca. I know that these are real examples of real people. These are just examples, and there are so many more.

You should still choose a wide range to audition for because the odds may be really bad at your favorite school. For example, it seems that CMU is a favorite of many kids who attend the summer program, but the reality is that hardly any of them will actually get into the selective college program.

ocuMTinfo · 02-10-2006, 08:28 PM

Thank you all for getting it! Everyone had their own opinions. Everyone has their own ideas of the "perfect" MT program. That's why people come here..to hear others ideas. No one's opinion is more valid than anothers. All I shared was an opinion. As valid one as anyone elses. Whether or not you agreed with my opinion or analogy, I'm happy we were able to have this information discussion.

lynnm · 02-11-2006, 08:34 AM

Vocal can also vary within a program. My D went (for a very short time) to a program where the voice teachers were from their music deparment. Some of the students had teachers who taught a great deal of mt repetoire (sp?)*. Others, like the one my D had, was completely classical. When my D walked in, the teacher expected her to already know how to read music. When my D told her that the MT students were supposed to learn that in the second year, she was told she'd have to learn in quickly on her own, since the voice teacher didn't have time to go over all that with her! Also told her that she didn't teach mt music, only classical. Needless to say, my D was miserable and left, but my point is....Even within a program, teachers can have a different "approach", but hopefully, the department has agreed on ONE philosophy. *I even tried to look up this one, but can't figure out how to spell it correctly - sorry!

doctorjohn · 02-11-2006, 08:47 AM

"repertoire" - you were only missing one letter.

lynnm · 02-11-2006, 05:01 PM

Thanks Doctor John! I believe possibly my Joisey accent causes me to pronounce the word incorrectly! (I know - that's just an excuse for being ignorant.)

artsymom · 02-11-2006, 11:55 PM

Going back a few posts re. JRB and Sondheim songs -- the conventional wisdom is not to use them for auditions because, as Ericsmom said, the accompaniment is very demanding. So many great, great songs from those two composers, but no sense alienating an accompanist!!

mtdog71 · 02-12-2006, 02:49 PM

Hi - I agree with much of what's been said - about style and range of exposure, etc. I don't know if you ever read what I have written about Jason Robert Brown's music - but if you have - I want you to know - I love his stuff. I think he is an exciting voice in today's MT scene. My only concern with his music - as audition material - is that it is often rythmically complex. This adds a "degree of difficulty" factor to the audition - and most auditioners are nevous enough to begin with - no need to have unnecessary added complications to the mix. I say choose an interesting song you can be comfortable and confident with. In my experience - it is better to stay way from a good bit JRB's and Sondheim's material.

chrism · 02-12-2006, 03:22 PM

What if you KNEW the accompanist could handle it, and you have a JRB song in your book? would you still be better off choosing a different audition piece?

mtdog71 · 02-14-2006, 08:39 PM

While there is the concern of the pianist - my main concern is for the auditioner. The complicated musical structure is another hurdle upon which one might trip. But if you are absolutely comfortable with the piece and are sure you can "knock it out of the park" every time - hey, go for it! It is rather like singing someone's signature song - if you can sing "Don't Rain on My Parade" as good or better than Streisand - go for it! There are things you can do to lessen pressure on yourself - or you can increase the difficulty factor - but if you can honestly pull it off - it could be impressive.