Well, no jec. Rather, I attended PSU and worked there for a number of years. We have 4 PSU degrees in my house. Son got into honors college and received a full tuition scholarship to PSU as well. So we're not at all Penn State-opposed. But I've been disappointed watching it up close and personal at how increasingly focused PSU has become on emulating the Big Ten research U. model and cranking out Ph.D.s in many areas. Undergrads are clearly the "cash cows" of the U's business model. Just look at their fund-raising requests/targets over the past 15 years ... virtually all / a great many are focused on PH.D., faculty, graduate fellowship, research support and facilities, etc. etc. Very little emphasis on undergrad recruitment and support because they know they're going to get them ad nauseum. The Penn State FA is among the worst in the country. Ask how many students receive merit aid AFTER they arrive on campus. Zilch. And very few get relatively little to get them there, either. Their true instructional fac/student ratios are outta site. I spoke with one boy recently who transferred in engineering (due to $$ ... he's a PA resident who had a personal situation necessitating his transfer in junior year). He noted that his senior seminar in mech. eng. had many more students than his frosh eng. classes at GA Tech. He was very disappointed. Retention for 2nd and 3rd years are not great. Ever wonder why one of the touted bennies of Schreyer Honors College is early registration? Ever wonder why there are something like 23 commonwealth campuses for undergrads? How many at UDel? none Pitt? 5 All are essentially to handle undergrads. (and btw, many are much more attractive and focused on undergrads than Main).
Re: assets per student ... all one needs to do to figure out the gross disparity there with UDel is look at the endowments (UD's is greater than PSU's I believe) and HUGELY greater, I'm sure, when it's examined on a per student basis, which is a more meaningful measure. Also, look at the ratio of undergrads to grad students at each ... UD wins big time.
One other anecdote, all of which my observations may be, is that my son was on the PSU campus for an honors program ... top 52 students in his area in HS ... and the U. never even bothered to send an admissions rep or Honors College rep to talk to them and "pitch" them. Again, simply suggests/implies that they see no need to devote time/people to that kind of activity.
UD has a notably different culture for undergrads, imo. I suspect it's due to the little recognized fact that it is chartered as a private institution (that's been essentially "captured", at least in part, by the state as the land-grant institution, requiring it to provide military, ag, engineering programs and in turn receiving both federal and state support. At it's core though, UD sees itself as an undergraduate educational provider. I simply do not see either PSU or Pitt (with its UPMC and other grad programs focus ... now substantially larger than the undergrad U. budgets, separate operations) as being the focus of what goes on there or how the internal folks see the institutional reputations being nurtured.
Look at instructors and class sizes ... UD kills both.
No doubt all 3 have ample "party" climates and opportunities. None are Webb Institute or Kenyon or Princeton or Olin. No doubt one can become alcoholic or flunk out of any, all of these. One could easily make their own judgements of each by cruising the campuses on a Friday, Saturday nite ... I've done all 3 many times. Newark seems to be the most "pallatable" in my view, and as we all know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
A good test on this, imo ... find 2-4 alums, any alums, and ask them this ... tell me about the 3 best professors you've had and the 3 most intimate conversations/learning experiences you've had. Make sure to ask them their names ... and if they knew the students' names. Why this? Because this is essentially what one is paying for ... all the rest is support, marginal. (another similar measure is the common assessment measures of undergrad ed.)
Ask them how many were in each of their first semester classes in their frosh,soph, senior year. Did they have TAs. Did they speak understandable English?
Who are the 3 closest college friends you'll include in your wedding party?
Look at Fin Aid on a per student basis. A very good indicator of the degree to whicn an institution values undergraduates . Another similar measue ... average debt per undergrad student. Most people fail to recognize this stat.
Way too many simply broad brush this stuff, imo, because it may be fun going to Beaver Stadium 7 times a year, or to College Ave or the frat house on Sat nite.
I spent 4 years at Pitt ... not a bad place, but not in the same league as the other 2, imo. One exception. Outstanding and more personal UNDERGRAD engineering program. Oakland is, dare I say it, the "pitts"?
and personally not where I'd like my own 18 year old daughter to go. But obviously, a great many would disagree on that. Pitt hoops beats the other 2 hands down.
Again, these are my views, no more, not intended to frustrate or anger any fellow Nits or Pitts. Simply said, I find the UD undergrad experience a more attractive, qualitative option. The Honors program there has it all over either Pitt or Schreyer. These are poor subsitutes, imo, altho they do serve to attract some otherwise Harvard bound students to th mega U's.
My personal belief is that very few are much interested in finding out genuinely qualitative answers to the tougher questions about how students are taught, instructed, attracted, supported in these places. Most don't want to really know because the answers are not great. I don't like reading about call-backs on the automobile I spent a lot of $$ on.
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