I'm not sure if skipping engin 101 or 151 is possible, but if OP, you go straight into 280, I think you'll encounter some problems.
I know a guy who started in LSA, took 280 without doing 101, 151, 182, 183 or anything else comparable, and transferred to Engineering and didn't have to take any of those. I think if you start in Engineering though, you will probably have to take 101 or 151. Whether or not you should take 101/151 given the option REALLY depends on your experience.
Math 285, EECS 280, and 2 languages sounds like a pretty difficult schedule. EECS 203 is significantly less time consuming than EECS 280 and probably a lot less than any language class unless you already know everything you're going to learn in it. I think Math 285, EECS 203, EECS 280, and one language class sounds much more reasonable.
Vlad's proposed 1st semester schedule sounds pretty intense too if you're not hung ho about math and coding. You could be, but it sounds like you'd enjoy 1 math + 1 coding + 2 languages better. Also if you end up in LSA you'd have to fit the First Year Writing Requirement in, so if you make that 1 of those 2 language classes, I think it would be a reasonable schedule.
I don't see Calc III required in the latest CS-LSA guide, so there's not much value in taking it at Michigan if you're set on CS. I definitely agree with Vlad about taking 203 and 280 as early as possible since they're prereqs for nearly every other CS class.
My son will be a freshman in the CoE and he has quite a bit of programming experience--he took two courses at a local university and has dabbled a bit on his own. He decided to take 151 because he doesn't know C++ yet.
I didn't realize a language class could count as a writing one.
Anyway, discrete math sounds interesting. I may be taking Calc III in high school next year, and if I do there's not much reason to take it in college except to kiss up to employers who value math skills.
MichiganStick, Calc III itself may not be required, but don't you have to take a certain number of math classes, a pool out of which you have some flexibility? If so, I'd rather take a real math class (whether or not that ends up being Calc III) than Algorithms X and Algorithms Y (placeholder names, of course).
Sorry, I meant to say replace a language class with a writing class - I don't think there are any language classes that count for FYWR. (Source [using advanced search]: LSA Course Guide)
For math, you just need Calc 1 and 2 to declare, and your choice of prob/stats class from their list of 4. I don't know how EECS handles it if you took Calc 1 and 2 in high school though.
discrete math may be interesting. it is however a required class in any school essentially (they may call is something slightly diff). calc 3 is not required if u getting cs through lsa. You will have to take "tech electives" later but you can just take more cs classes to fulfill them. if you want to take classes in other engineering fields such as EE, ME etc then maybe taking calc 3 and calc 4 might be beneficial and necessary. However being a LSA student you probably wont have many of the physics pre reqs either so dunno how that would work.
in cs you will be taking eecs 203 (discrete), eecs 376 (foundations of comp sci) and some stats class they let you choose from. However it can never hurt to know more math and its always a plus. but don't take unnecessary math classes if it may potentially put your more important classes in jepordy. Which is why you should take it easy ur first term so you can gauge yourself.
EECS def accepts calc 1 and calc 2. Well people dont enter the college as eecs, they just enter as engineers so being in eecs or not does not change if calc 1 and 2 are allowed from ap/IB or whatever else you took.
So my earlier claim that for requirements for CS-LSA and CSE seem to be out of date. Here are the changes: http://www.eecs.umich.edu/eecs/under...comparison.pdf This seems to make CSE quite a bit more expansive than CS-LSA.
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except to kiss up to employers who value math skills
I think you'd actually be doing the opposite if you did that. There's plenty of important math classes to take, you don't need to waste your time taking Calc 3 twice, especially if you're an EECS major.
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I don't know how EECS handles it if you took Calc 1 and 2 in high school though.
Then you're out of the requirement. Just like, I thought, any other major. Are there any which refuse either class from transferring in?
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but don't you have to take a certain number of math classes, a pool out of which you have some flexibility
Used to be, not anymore apparently. See the top of my post.
Are there any advantages to doing CS through LSA if you're not doing a LSA double major? Seems like job recruiters would prefer CS-Eng kids over them. Plus, they get a BSE degree, unlike the LSA's BS. Though downside, COE requires Chem, Physics, Eng 100, 4 Calc classes, 9 more credits of technical electives, 8 more credits overall for graduation. Core requirements are identical. So CS-LSA is easier than CS-eng, but that sounds more like a con than a pro since employers may want more serious engineers.
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I don't see Calc III required in the latest CS-LSA guide, so there's not much value in taking it at Michigan if you're set on CS.
ForeverAlone, see my post directly above yours. The requirements for the entering Fall '12 class are different, and significantly less demanding. The core requirements are different now. EECS electives are gone from CS-LSA. They also allow Stats 250 which is the "joke" stats class. There's some other changes too.
And honestly, I don't think most employers know the difference. CS-LSA majors get access to the same recruiting opportunities as CSE majors. This may change, as before CS-LSA was very close to equivalent to CSE, but I doubt anyone cares enough about it to actually watch out for curriculum changes. I honestly don't see how you can look at a someone's major between CSE and CS-LSA and say one is a serious engineer and other is a bum.
Okay, but that doesn't really answer my question. You didn't state any advantages at all.
And I'm sure employers will know the difference. Using logical reasoning, if recruiters are willing take the time to visit to UMich, they'll probably need details about Michigan's CS curriculum.
FOUR Calc classes? I didn't even know there were that many, never mind the fact that I'd be placing out of at LEAST the first two.
Anyway, I'm not specifically opposed to taking science-inclined classes like chemistry and physics (though if I can fight off the senioritis long enough I'll be able to place out of basic Physics). It's just that I also want flexibility to take language classes as well as art/design ones (mostly so I can say to employers that I have, though also for personal fulfillment). I just don't see the need to do CSE if the only Engineering I'd touch with a thirty-nine-and-a-half-foot pole is CS.
Look, if you're in CoE you're not gonna be able to take art and language classes. You don't have time, employers certainly don't care, it would be unnecessary. If you're in LSA you would have to take a language but I still don't see you having time for art classes. The art majors work notoriously long hours on their projects and I haven't heard of one non-art major taking a design class through that school.
I haven't heard of one non-art major taking a design class through that school.
I have... Well, architecture, which I think has the same issues as art in that regard. But literally just one person. If I recall correctly, he said the professor was pretty chill and relaxed some of the due dates for him a little because he wasn't an architecture major.
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And I'm sure employers will know the difference. Using logical reasoning, if recruiters are willing take the time to visit to UMich, they'll probably need details about Michigan's CS curriculum.
Until now, there's not been enough difference between CS-LSA and CSE that anyone would care. They have been extremely similar. If you're hired to do a CS job, it makes no difference whether you took E&M or not. Even now that it's changed, if employers did care, I don't think they're paying attention to the curriculum changes because it doesn't happen frequently enough.
Also, employers simply care more about what you can do than did you take class XYZ. Sure, in CS there's a couple of examples where a specific class is important, but those cases still apply to both CS-LSA and CSE.
Look, if you're in CoE you're not gonna be able to take art and language classes.
And that is exactly why OP is going to apply to LSA. The CS-LSA major is 51-52 credits, and a degree is 120. Plenty of time for art and design there, especially while you're bottlenecked by 203/280/281.
Also, I don't think the rigor of curriculum is really going to matter when the differences lie in things like math and science prereqs and you're still taking the same upper level programming. (Vlad, I don't see where the EECS electives are gone. Just a tiny bit less stringent.)
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I don't know how EECS handles it if you took Calc 1 and 2 in high school though.
Then you're out of the requirement. Just like, I thought, any other major. Are there any which refuse either class from transferring in?
@Vlad, I think some majors get touchy if you try to use high school credit for an entire prereq sequence like math. I didn't feel like testing the system, so I personally just took 216 to prove I could handle a college-level math class.
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I don't see Calc III required in the latest CS-LSA guide, so there's not much value in taking it at Michigan if you're set on CS.
