"To the point that I had to post something for the first time"
With the many tens of thousands of posts on this site since you joined in 2009, you decided that Alexandre's innocuous statement was so unbearable that you just had to comment for the very first time? Do you seriously expect anyone to believe the sincerity of your remarks?
It's great that Michigan men and woman played a big role in this discovery. The bet with Hawking is cool and worth sharing. I'm not convinced this is real yet though.
"So - if we can find a particle whose mass matches what we predict, and it has the correct properties for a mass-field exchange particle, then we can infer that the Higgs' field is real, and is the cause of mass"? There are two thing we need to show to conclude that we've found the mediator of the Higgs' field. There needs to be a particle with the right mass, and it needs to have the properties of a mass-mediator. What we've got right now is an observation that yes, there is a particle at the mass we'd expect for a Higgs'. But we don't have observations yet of any properties of the particle other than its mass. Assuming the standard model is right, the odds of finding another particle with that mass is damned unlikely, but the standard model could be wrong. It's not likely at this point, but people like to be careful. So at this point, to be precise, we've observed a Higgs'-like particle - a particle that according to all of the observations we've made so far appears to be a Higgs'; but until we observe some properties other than mass, we can't be absolutely certain that it's a Higgs'.
Remember when neutrinos were supposedly traveling faster than light late last year? That result reached a six-sigma level of confidence – even higher than the 5-sigma level convention required for new particle discoveries. But we learned earlier this year that neutrinos indeed obey the universal speed limit, so what went wrong?
Most crucially, the faster-than-light neutrino experiment suffered from a systematic error that affected all of the data; faulty cables consistently gave the researchers bad readings. No matter how many times physicists repeated the experiments, they would get the same yet inaccurate results.
My gut is that there is something wrong with the standard model, rather than this being a systematic error. Just saying, I'd hold up paying the $100.
"On what foundation is this accusation based, I know not either."
There is at least one other poster who shares identical details with another poster who comes from the same city in Asia. This is not an accusation, it is fact. You have two identities. I am concealing the country and your alternate identity for your own sake.
Furthermore, nobody posts for the first time the way you did. This thread is hardly offensiv to anybody. I did not insult any university or nationality or whatever.
Finally, how do you figure that I am "claiming the quality of Michigan solely on the mere basis of a petty bet and an assumption that Michigan students worked at CERN"? That is a huge leap. This is a fun and whimsical thread, nothing more. The quality of Michigan has been discussed much on this thread, from its excellent academics and top ranked departments to its huge endowment and rich campus/college town culture etc... How did you come to the conclusion that I am basing Michigan's entire quality on Kane's work on this recent discovery?
Not to take anything away from Michigan, in fact, I was thinking of posting a similar thread at MSU's forum a week earlier. However, know that besides University of Michigan, there are more than a handful of institutions around the globe claim their contribution to the discovery of Higgs-Boson Particle.
The state of Michigan alone has UofM, MSU and even Wayne State claimed contributions based on a brief google news search. Other schools such as Notre Dame, Chicago to Virginia all had claimed involvement as CERN is a multi-national, multi-institutional cooperation / operation.
Nonetheless, the consensus amongst the academics for this type of accelerated isotope research in the United States is clear that Michigan State's NSCL / FRIB is / will be the future of American Nuclear Physics especially in terms of new particle discovery, bar none!!
Quote:
FRIB construction is set to finish around 2020, according to the construction and facility managers, and if the project moves forward with the proper funding, this could be a pivotal step in nuclear physics, placing MSU at the forefront of nuclear research along with the Large Hadron Collider, or LHC, in Switzerland.
Development of the new facility has gained recent support after the discovery of the Higgs boson particle, which is said to be the reason particles have mass.
The discoveries that could be made by researchers in FRIB could change current scientific thought about nuclear physics and molecular biology. As researchers in FRIB make these new discoveries, it will give the university greater recognition as an integral part of research in nuclear physics, affirming the university still believes in the importance of academics and research.
U.S. lawmakers and MSU should continue to move forward with this project. Upon its proposed completion in 2020, the facility will help gain MSU recognition as one of the main research facilities for nuclear physics.
you are telling me a career academia person predicted something correctly over another career academia person on ideas that are irrelevant to 99.99999999% of the people in this world and will never be able to monetized...
They get excited about stuffs like this. That's why they are in academics ... otherwise they would be out in the real world making real bucks. And some of them really like to teach.
It turns out that 11 of Duke's 56 physicists, not including emeriti professors, are involved in the search either at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) near Geneva, Fermilab or at both facilities.
By 2020, the American Nuclear Scientists will no longer have to travel all the way to Switzerland. Many will accept the appointment at NSCL / FRIB - the most advanced atom accelerated collider facility for rare isotope research in the nation.
MSU is planning to recruit 400 top nuclear scientists from around the globe with the capacity of another 2,000 international interface users for visiting scholars. Some top nuclear researchers from Stanford's SLAC had joined the school last year, we certainly welcome Duke and Michigan's top scientists to East Lansing as well.
Thanks to Higgs-Boson's recent highly touted global publicity, MSU's FRIB budget is set to be quadrupled from $1.5 billion spending to at least $5 billion by completion. The project was initially planned for $500-million. It is currently at $680-million due to inflation and add-on costs. The research funding is also set to increase from the initial $100 million DOE + $20 million NSF = $120 million to $250 million annual research funding in order to stay competitive to its European counterpart - LHC @ CERN.
*FRIB - The holy grail of the next generation Atom Smasher. Project won from the hands of Stanford, Berkeley, Chicago, Columbia, Harvard, Yale, and MIT.
Quote:
EAST LANSING, Mich. — The National Research Council says Michigan State University’s Facility for Rare Isotope Beams project should remain a major priority.
A report issued June 27 by the NRC outlines the accomplishments of the nuclear physics field during the last decade and recommends a strategy for the future, including, as its first recommendation, “the timely completion of the Facility for Rare Isotope Beams and the initiation of its physics program.”
The report calls FRIB “a major new strategic investment in nuclear science. It will have unique capabilities and offers opportunities to answer fundamental questions about the inner workings of the atomic nucleus, the formation of the elements in our universe, and the evolution of the cosmos.”
Michigan Leaders Unite to Support Rare Isotope Accelerator Initiative, Announces Michigan State University
Honorary Chair: Gerald Ford, 38th President of the United States
Co-Chairs:
Donna Banks, Senior VP for Research, Kellogg Corporation
James Barrett, President, Michigan Chamber of Commerce
Mark Gaffney, President, Michigan AFL-CIO
David Hollister, Mayor, City of Lansing
Steering Group:
Dennis Archer, Chairman, Dickinson Wright PLLC
Lu Battaglieri, President, Michigan Education Association
J.T. Battenberg, CEO, Delphi Automotive
Kenneth Burnley, CEO, Detroit Public Schools Mary Sue Coleman, President, The University of Michigan
Paula Cunningham, President, Lansing Community College
Dick DeVos, President, ALTICOR
Michael Duggan, Wayne County Prosecutor
Michelle Engler, First Lady, State of Michigan
Dan Gaydou, Publisher, Grand Rapids Press
Paul Hillegonds, CEO, Detroit Renaissance
James Hoffa, President, International Brotherhood of Teamsters
Michael Jandernoa, Chairman, Perrigo
Frank Kelley, Partner, Kelley Cawthorne
Kwame Kilpatrick, Mayor, City of Detroit
Mary Kramer, Editor, Crain's Detroit Business
Ed McNamara, Wayne County Executive
Heath Meriwether, Publisher, The Detroit Free Press
Eugene Miller, Chairman, Comerica
L. Brooks Patterson, Oakland County Executive
Randall Pittman, CEO, Forest Health Services Corp.;
Member, MSU Board of Trustees
Philip Power, Chairman, Hometown Communications Network
Irvin Reid, President, Wayne State University
Doug Rothwell, CEO, MEDC
Peter Secchia, Chairman, Universal Forest Products
Mark Silverman, Publisher & Editor, The Detroit News
Robert Teeter, President, Coldwater Corporation
Kenneth Way, Chairman, Lear Corporation
Rick Wagoner, CEO, General Motors
Although Ford pardoned Nixon in the Watergate scandal, I still give him credit for participated in the support to bring FRIB (formerly known as the RIA Project) to the state of Michigan. Unlike the current F-RIB which is to be constructed on Michigan State's Main Campus underneath the current NSCL site, RIA was to be constructed on the 2,700 acres of MSU South Campus.
"Higgs Boson Particle" was theorised by R. Brout, F. Englert, P. Higgs, G. S. Guralnik, C. R. Hagen, and T. W. B. Kibble back in 1964. I believe there is only 1 American present in this group, whose an alumnus of Harvard & MIT. And since only 3 people maximum are allowed to receive the prestigious Nobel Prize, my hope for the future American Nobel Laureate in this particular field will rest in the hand of MSU's facility.
Between the two teams searching for the Higgs Bosen, there were 6,000 scientists involved. Virtually every major research university will be able to claim credit, as they should. Noone here was saying that UM was or should be taking all the credit. This thread was only about a bet between a UM professor and Hawkings. Are you UM haters from Duke, MSU and other schools, that desperate to find something to hate about UM that your reduced to arguing . . . Actually, I don't know what the f^&* you are arguing. What is your point again?
Hehe! Well said MichorPlan2. The purpose of this thread was to share a funny, if not whimsical, story about Michigan, on an exclusively University of Michigan forum, purely for the entertainment of Michigan alums and students. It was not intended to:
1. Demonstate or prove how good Michigan is as a university, as meon seems to think
2. Infer that a large percentage of the population cares about this story, as Bearcats so delicately pointed out
I do not mind the Duke and MSU partisans who proubly point out their universities' involvement in the Higgs boson discovery, but again, this threat is intended to be fun.
1. "It would seem that several Michigan faculty and students have worked at CERN in the Higgs boson project. Yet again, Michigan proves its quality."
-It seems as if I saw a claim there that no one else saw.
2. "There is at least one other poster who shares identical details with another poster who comes from the same city in Asia. This is not an accusation, it is fact. You have two identities. I am concealing the country and your alternate identity for your own sake."
-I think you are saying, because the other person created an account from the city I did, he and I should be the same. And, in fact, you should remember that my first post was also a direct accusation on you and it got deleted.
Facts are not disputable. And they are certain.
3. " Do you seriously expect anyone to believe the sincerity of your remarks? "
-You were the one to point out:
meonconfidential
New Member
"I think you are saying, because the other person created an account from the city I did, he and I should be the same."
meon, you do not merely share the same city as another poster, you share the identical IP address (in other words, the same computer and address). As Super Moderator, I can actually verify this sort of detail.
"And, in fact, you should remember that my first post was also a direct accusation on you and it got deleted."
I did not delete any of your posts so far. All four of your posts in this thread are intact. Please show me which post I deleted. You are correct in one thing however, you are accusing me, pointlessly I may add.
"You were the one to point out:
meonconfidential
New Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1 "
I did not point that out. I believe that was rjkofnovi, and his observation was certainly valid.
"It seems as if I saw a claim there that no one else saw"
Not really. It is just that your point is very petty. My pointing out that dozens of faculty and students are working on the Higgs boson in CERN is such an insignificant achievement compared to other Michigan milestones. Just looking at Michigan's academic rankings, which have been posted in a thread above, should make it clear that this thread was not intended to be a statement of Michigan's excellence. Like I said, this thread was intended as a fun diversion for Michigan alums and students. It was posted in the official CC Michigan forum. Your reaction was unjustified, particularly if your claim that it forced you out of three years of silence is true!
"meon, you do not merely share the same city as another poster, you share the identical IP address (in other words, the same computer and address). As Super Moderator, I can actually verify this sort of detail."
Just suspend him already Alexandre. I say three years should do it. It's not like it will effect him anyway. I mean according to meonconfidential it took him that long to send his first post anyway, right? He will still be able to read about the achievements at Michigan, so it won't be too harsh of a punishment. lol
I was recently threaten with CC suspension only because I posted a one sentence response politely requesting a thread to be re-instated to the general discussion forum.. Alex is too nice as a Mod. This is certainly not overreacting, but "meonconfidential" should be suspended imho!! lol
