First off, If you are coming here to quarrel on the subject as to why anyone would want to go into philosophy, that is fine, I will try to explain in the best way possible WHY. My main goal is to find out what what ever the minority amount of people here think regarding to the two schools and their departments.
I donít normally talk to people about the philosophy degree because they instantly think that the degree is a horrible liberal arts choice and ect...So with that said I told one of my business professors that I was thinking about transferring to NYU for their philo degree...his response was "why would you ever want to go to NYU when UoM can match almost every program...that an its NYU..." and I was stumbled, at the same time I had an idea of why NYU would beat UoM
Anyways, if anyone can shine some light on the two departments from the two different schools, would be awesome and much help!
I am not sure it is possible to distinguish between the two departments at the undergraduate level. Both have top rated Philosophy programs, but as far as undergrads are concerned, any of the top Philosophy departments will offer similar academic opportunities. I would focus on cost of attendance and on better overall fit. Which school is more affordable...and where will you be happier?
NYU is the highest ranked philosophy program in the U.S. by Philosophical Gourmet, which is the standard ranking for philosophy. NYU has some of the top philosophers in the world like Ronald Dworkin (philosophy of law) and Tim Maudlin (philosophy of physics) to name a few. But if you're undergrad, you probably won't see any of those superstar professors for a while. University of Michigan's philosophy program, as far as I can tell from the influence of their graduate students, isn't a bad program either. But NYU is clearly one of the best right now.
asianamericanson, according to the Philosophical Gourmet, the difference in quality of the graduate Philosophy programs between Michigan and NYU is negligible. If memory serves, NYU is #1 while Michigan is #4. Just to put Michigan's #4 ranking into context, Harvard, MIT, Yale, Stanford and Cal, all powerhouses in Philosophy, are all ranked lower than Michigan. At the undergraduate level, it is unlikely one will notice a difference in quality or opportunities.
Cost of attendance is going to be interesting. I had called NYU earlier today to find out how they financially cover costs of people who for say have no parental back up ( I have no money for college, im first gen college student, parents cannot help me out) Is the sandwich I am in. NYU pretty much told me unless I am a resident of the state or an incoming freshman, my choices is to go through fafsa (which will prob cut my tuition in half) and the rest you loan or scholarship it...
On the other hand, I am a Michigan resident. Which does have some perks regarding UMich financial assistance programs for kids that come from a "depressing" financial background, to give them an "almost" free ride if I am correct?
I just look at from the undergrad perspective:
NYU grad (Philosophy Major/ Econ Minor): higher chance of employment just because you went to the better school, with the better department. I heard you major in asian studies or anthropology and still land gigs in finance world just because you went to a premiere private school (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Oxford...ect) and they typically do not care what you studied just the fact you went there. Also they would assume that a lot of people will get an MBA in the near future after graduation, which left me to believe going to NYU would make it look better that I graduated from and with the #1 philo degree program in the country
ON THE CONTRARY
UMich grad (Philosophy Major/ Econ Minor): Considered a Public Ivy with a renowned academia and great professors. But itís not in the TOP TOP (or is it?). Great benefits financially if youíre a state resident. But will I get the same internships as I would in NYU/NYC?, No idea. What could I land with a philo/econ degree in Michigan with great networking?
I know a few things regarding UMich...wait, Let me say I think I know (because I am judging from the people I know who went there) Quite a few people from high school go there, and from what I hear itís just people do some studying and a lot of frats, and parties. Itís not say I am a downer or nerd (and there is nothing wrong with being an extreme intellectual) I can say without hesitation I am not, I just have a very high goal oriented vision of what I want to do with my life, and the fact that my family troubles (financially and physical problems) donít help. I donít care for the "artificial" town/campus environment. I have been and still am just really independent person throughout my years of HS and now my second year of CC.
NYU would seem the place to go, if youíre a go getter. It weeds out people who canít comprehend the "isolation" of not having a campus no "crowd" of people that you walk with, it just seems more goal oriented. Again this is just assumptions; I have not been in either campus so I have no clue what the reality of both are.
rant over, you guys are still welcome to comment, as I have no one to really talk to about this topic haha, ty
Geez, I assumed the kid would read the gourmet report and see that Michigan was 4th. What I said was that "based on the influence of their graduate students" Michigan is still an exceptionally fine, though not all-star, program. That's not to put down Michigan in any way; I'd be THRILLED to get into Michigan's philosophy PhD.
asianamericanson, so would you say that Princeton (#3) and Harvard (#5) are also merely "fine" but not "all-star" programs?
Nick, your assumptions are off. NYU students don't have an easier time finding jobs than Michigan students. Even Stern students do not have an easier time, let alone Asian Studies majors. Just because NYU is private does not make it better. Michigan is ranked anywhere between #10 and #20 among US universities. NYU is also excellent, but not quite as good. Only 5 private universities are better than Michigan, and perhaps another 15 or so are as good. Michigan's private peers are Cornell and Northwestern, while its public peers are Cal, UCLA, UNC and UVa.
Also, the reason why more students at Michigan party is because there are facilities for students to do so. NYU has no campus, so naturally, the social scene will not be as active. That does not make Michigan students any less driven than NYU students. Both universities matriculate a high number of students in top graduate programs, so I would assume both universities attract smart and motivated students.
At any rate, in your case, cost of attendance is going to be an important factor. Wait until you get your acceptances and your financial packages. If the cost of attendance at both schools is almost the same, then think about fit. But when you do, make sure you do not form an opinion on assumptions. The main difference between Michigan and NYU is campus acitivity and institutional wealth. Michigan has a clear advantage in both domains.
asianamericanson, I am focusing more to the undergrad state than the graduate state. And yes I did read the "gourment" report and was impressed, although confused on how harvard, princeton, yale, stanford are not highly ranked? why is that...
Alexandre, I really appreciate the points you have given me. I will certainly apply to both and see what happens. Along with that look into UMich a bit more closely, considering the cost will matter a lot (60-75k in loan would be a bummer)
rjkofnovi, bro, I hope you read the quote with great...great hmm...great laugh? shock? I do not know what, but I was more dumbfounded when he said that, and finally to my depiction realized how repulsive a lot of community college teachers are. A lot think they know everything, and their way is right and I cant say jack because I depend on the grade from them. So trust me...I know what your thinking
(just dont label me as "that" CC kid! please and thanks!)
The gourmet report is based on the reputation of the faculty so that's why the ivies may not be so highly ranked (although I hear in many philosophers' circles, Princeton is considered the best school for graduate philosophy). If you're looking at undergraduate philosophy, you might want to take a look at Calvin College (Grand Rapids). Their philosophy program is HIGHLY respected. Alvin Plantinga, one of the top philosophers of the past century and currently teaching at Calvin had this to say: "I heard that once [Calvin philosophy professor] David Hoekema was introduced at a national conference and the speaker said David had graduated from the finest graduate philosophy program in the nation—Princeton—and the finest undergraduate philosophy program in the country—Calvin." Philosopher of science Michael Ruse had this to say in an otherwise critical article on Calvin: "I have often said that I would have given my eye teeth to have been educated as an undergraduate at one of America’s top liberal arts colleges, and I have always thought of Calvin as a good reason why. Academically the faculty is top notch – I think the Philosophy Department is right up there with the very best in the nation – and the dedication to teaching is simply humbling. "
If you are really a poor in state student who gets into both, you won't have a choice. It'll be Umich and it'll hit you once you get the finaid offer. Grant $ and lower tuition is so huge that you'll wonder why you made this thread. The MPact for instance is a no loan deal. Even Calvin will likely be more expensive.
Are you really going to stereotype 40k students? Look at the profile, grad and professional placement and it should be obvious the outcomes are just as good if not superior to NYU. So much gets done here in the way of internships, research, volunteer or ECs, you name it. People are constantly doing things so I have no idea what you mean "less goal oriented."