vienna man

Appalachian State????

dilksy

The lounges converted into quads really aren't on the girls half. Each half of a floor is broken down into two "L's" that meet at the elevators. The L containing the main hallway usually has more rooms, and usually consists of doubles and triple. The other L only has two triples, about 6 singles, and then the rest are doubles, so they by far have fewer residents (this is reflected by number of showers/urinals in the corresponding bathrooms). So just because of this disparity in numbers, it would make sense to classify that converted quad as being part of the smaller L. Kind of balances out how many people each RA needs to know instead of making the gap worse.

fredmar

I see your point. What doesn't make sense to me is taking the lounge over in the first place. Common spaces like lounges and study rooms are important both for the collegiality of the floors and the actual ability to study. Taking them over and renting them as dorm rooms diminishes the value to all the residents. It would not be acceptable in any other rental situation, but the unversity gets away with it because the realm of the housing office is a dictatorship.

dilksy

The hall lounges aren't as important for studying since the 9th floor of South Quad is basically a giant study center.

tank

Hey Alexandre, im currently a student at Michigan right now, and i just feel like if it wasnt for the football team, there would be no pride in the school. I dont know many of our school's traditions, I feel like the class size is too large, and that the administration does not do its job in accomodating the students. Whats more is that Michigan's rank has fallen once again in USNWR's annual rankings. Our alumni donation rate is one of the lowest in the country. Why is this? For a "top tier" school like Michigan it doesnt seem like our students are very well taken care of, otherwise the alumni would express more satisfaction. The incoming freshman class is too large, and this cuts down the funds that can be used to make students' lives better. The students here, atleast myself, dont seem to know that they go to a great school and as a result, there is no pride in the school on campus. Speaking from LSA's point of view, the students are not given the perks that engineers, b-school students, or even music school students have. Students at a good school should be treated by their school well. Ive noticed that you have significant pride in Michigan. Maybe you could shed some light on all this for me, and give me a reason to be proud? i dont mean to sound caustic in this post, these issues have been bothering me for a while.

Alexandre

Tank, the majority of Michigan students and alums take more pride in their school's academic traditions than its athletic traditions. Simply put, no matter how great Michigan's athletic accomplishments are, its academic stature remains a notch above. Many Michigan students and alums also take pride in the history of the university and in the town of Ann Arbor. In fact, a great many students and alums couldn't care less about Michigan athletics. They care a lot more about the fact that Michigan has pioneered university education for over 150 years or that Michigan consistantly ranks among the top 10 in almost every single field of study imaginable or that Ann Arbor is one of the very best cities to live in. There are very few academics, intellectuals or corporate recruiters who would agree with Michigan's USNWR ranking. Most would rank Michigan among the top 10 or top 15.

And don't let the USNWR ranking fool you. Michigan has been ranked between #21 and #25 for the last 17 years. That is not about to change. Cal and UVa have also been ranked between #20 and #25 during that period. State schools just don't do well in the USNWR "system".

Class size at Michigan is indeed large, but only at the intro levels. That is true at most major research universities. Intro level classes at other elite universities like Cal, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Northwestern and Stanford are also large.And the administration at those schools is generally not geared to cater to undergraduate students, hence the term "research university". Let us not kid ourselves Tank, a school that has more than 5,000 graduate students and more than 10,000 total students is not going to give personalized attention to its students.

As for alumni donations, don't take the low donation rate too seriously. When Michigan alums give, they give BIG! But do not compare Michigan's alumni donation rates to those of its much smaller private peers. For one thing, private universities have been aggressively pursuing their alums for donations since the 19th century. Michigan and other publics have only done so since the 1960s. Secondly, public schools are limited in how aggressively they can pursue their alums, private universities aren't. Even if public universities could pursue their alums as aggressively as private universities, their alumni populations are so large, chances, are, a significantly smaller percentage of the total alumni population would be reached. If you look at alumni donation rates, you will see that in most cases, they are a function of alumni size. Finally, private universities have also catered to legacies for a very long time. Pubics have not done so...not to the same extent anyway. It is much easier to ask a third or fourth generation alum for money when her/his parents and grandparents have been donating money to the school.

In short Tank, you probably did not pick the right school. It seems like you would have been more content at a LAC.

inspirdbyacause

i agree with alexandre. im a sophomore at michigan this year and i love it here. sure its a big school, but if you put yourself out there and get involved you meet plenty of people. in fact i dont go a day where i dont see people i know on the street, in class, or on the diag. so tank, just give it some time, try to join some clubs and i guarantee you will find the michigan spirit. on a side note, alexandre what year did you graduate and what are you doing now? just out of curiousity...

LuxArtesVeritas

Tank:

This is the first post where I think Alexandre is too negative.

By class size, It sounds like you mean the size of your class (freshman, sophmore, etc) rather than the size of specific courses.

Michigan is big and there is really not a lot of personal attention unless you are self motivated and seek it out. However, as a major research university with outstanding graduate programs, there are plenty of resources that are open to whomever is interested.

One example is the Hopwood Program http://www.lsa.umich.edu/english/hopwood/default.asp . It has an amazing history and tradition. http://www.umich.edu/pres/speeches/060421hopwood.html

I am simply listing this as an example. There are a number of programs and resources in other fields.

Most of what's great tends to be specialized, so there is less of a sense of a shared undergraduate experience then some smaller LAC schools. I hope you can find what you are looking for. Best of luck.

Alexandre

Inspirdbyacause, I was at Michigan from 1992-1996. I am now an HR Director at a private equity firm in Dubai. More specifically, I support the firm's luxury yacht subsidiary, which represents the Benetti, Azimut, Riviera and Atlantis brands in the Middle East region. It is a difficult life I lead! hehe!!!

LuxArtesVeritas, I was not trying to be negative, but one does not attend a major research university for the sake of receiving individualized attention. That's like complaining that Alaska is too cold or Hawaii too "beachy"! Students who attend major research universities generally accept that the endless opportunities that come with such institutions require a great deal of self-initiative and independence.

GoBlue81

The reason why Michigan is ranked so low in "alumni giving" (17% and 83th) is the way USNWR defines the term.

"Alumni giving. The average percentage of undergraduate alumni of record who donated money to the college or university. Alumni of record are former full- or part-time students who received an undergraduate degree and for whom the college or university has a current address."

USNWR doesn't take into consideration the size of the gift or the total amount of alumni donations. That is, an alum donating $10M is counted the same as one donating $10. There is no way a university ranked 8th in endowment should be ranked 83th in alumni giving.

It is also questionable how you define "alumni with a current address". I don't know how Michigan verifies/reports these data to USNWR. But if it is anywhere near the way the Alumni Association reports them, Michigan would have way over-estimated that number. For example, according to AA's InCircle, there are more than 800 alumni in the city where I live. However, we are never able to contact more than 100, as most of these people are not registered members of the local alumni chapter. It is reasonable to suspect that the majority of these addresses are not "current". In fact, several of my friends who are on the list have never returned to this city after they left school more than 30 years ago. It may be more fair if we count only the alum who are registered members of the local/global alumni association.

Quincy4

^GoBlue, I never like the alumni giving stat; means nothing... Bottom line is, UM is a public U, and its alumni base's sheer size (and public nature) hurts it in that stat, but yet, it IS a public U that has an endowment bigger than only a hand full of top private U's. And yes, we know taxpayer support is way down in struggling Michigan -- fueling some misguided talk of privatizing UM (no such talk from Ann Arbor, I believe),... but bottom line: UM IS still taxpayer supported, and endowment of that size is spellbinding.

keefer

This is a message to Tank:

I know exactly how you feel, I think you had an unrealistic expectation of what college is like... much like i did years ago. There is also a little bit of the "grass is greener on the other side" symptom. Michigan has large classes, so do most recognized top tier Universities. Most top ranked private schools say they have a 6:1 - 10:1 student to faculty ratio. well... if you researched carefully, you'd find that average class size for most of those schools are in the range of 25-35... much like what Michigan has.

You have to accept how Michigan is, if you cannot, then you should consider a different atmosphere. It is a cut-throat competitive atmosphere, where you have to seek opportunities for yourself... much like life after college. So consider this a test swim...

FellowCCViewer

I <3 you for starting this thread.

atomicfusion

Thread over.

vin

hahahahha this thread is awesome