emsrlyons

So, I'm pretty sure I'll get an audition at least (or I hope). I have a 3.8 gpa and got a 24 on my act, though i'm retaking it. I was just wondering if taking a more than 3 years of math is going to get me anywhere haha. I've taken 3.5 years of math and I'm in pre-calc right now. I was considering dropping it for either a Theatre Tech course or an Audition-Prep independent study. Any suggestions/does my math repertoire reaaally matter? Thanks!!

ShelleySings

This is a really hard question.
If it were me, I would call and try to talk to someone about it.
Laura Hoffman, in the school of music, could help answer your question.
Here's her info on the school of music website: UM School of Music, Theatre & Dance - [var:'identity']

Just give her a call. She will be so helpful. I promise.

perischack

Emsrlyons, my son's guidance counselor "let" him drop Math after junior year, and he had no problem getting accepted academically everywhere he applied, including UMich. (He had much stronger ACTs however (33), so you may definitely want to work on that, although your GPA is strong.) He, too, had been in Honors Math throughout high school, so we were comfortable believing he met most schools' requirements, especially since he was applying for a BA or BFA program.

62442

Would you say the same would also apply to science classes? My high school only requires two science credits, and I've had three (biology, chemistry, and anatomy). I'd rather not take another one this upcoming year.

soozievt

For Emsrlyons:
While I agree with ShelleySings that you should check directly with the college, you will be applying to more than one college and so what you decide to do should not simply be geared to what UMichigan says.

In my opinion, more academically selective schools (UMich being one of them) care about WHAT you took in high school (not just the GPA) and prefer to see that you took the most challenging and rigorous courses that you could handle based on what your particular HS offers. While many here state their GPA, it is not enough information without knowing the courses and levels of those courses taken vis a vis what your high school offers. While a 3.8 sounds very good (but is that unweighted or weighted? makes a difference! If unweighted....that is a strong GPA...), it matters the level of coursework you chose to take. A 3.8 taking the easiest track classes or the min. high school requirements is looked at VERY DIFFERENTLY than a 3.8 taking the most demanding classes your school offers (such as Honors, AP, IB), and going beyond the min. graduation requirements as well. So, without seeing your transcript and your school profile, I would not venture to advise you specifically.

That said, if you were to drop math, you will have only taken up through Algebra II and not Pre-Calculus, let alone Calculus. Going up just to Algebra II is not that strong for a Michigan (or other selective college). I imagine they prefer to see higher, as well as have many applicants who have taken math beyond Algebra II. I would encourage you to go up through at least Pre-Calculus for colleges like Michigan.

Also, your ACT score is low for Michigan. I would encourage you to prep for the ACT and not merely retake it with no prep. The odds of being admitted to Michigan are much lower for someone with a score of 24.

While Perichack's son did well in admissions without math as a senior, I don't feel it is a good comparison. One is that he also had an ACT of 33. The main reason, however, is that we can't compare the rigor of his HS courseload with that of the OP's. If Perichack's son took Honors and AP classes in HS, for example, and the OP did not, that would be a difference. Further, while Perichack says her son did not take math as a senior, I will venture to guess (she can clarify this) that he took math up through Pre-Calculus (or Trig) and not just through Algebra II as the OP would be doing if not taking math as a senior. That is a big difference. So, it is not a matter of simply taking math senior year or not but the strength of what you have taken in math to date (the courses and the level of them) and the rest of your chosen HS curriculum, as well.

keepingcalm

i am going o give completely motherly advice, well motherly and as a University faculty in a completely unrelated area to MT. Getting into college is not your final goal here, you want to get into college prepared to be successful in all your classes there and graduate with a degree you are happy with. You will have to take some math in college and taking a year off of math will make it much more difficult when you must take the general education requirement. Not all of your high school career she be geared toward getting in- but should also focus on being as well prepared as possible. Like I told my kid - take the math class.

MusThCC

keepingcalm - I totally agree that HS choices shouldn't just be about getting into college as a final goal. That said, not all MT programs at college require that you take a math class. Checking out the courses required of all the colleges you are looking at should be a huge part of which schools you like -- this has been brought up in other areas. Do you have voice every semester? Dance? How many (and what) gen eds are required? How much flexibility do you have in choosing electives (if any)? And, as you do that research, you may discover that your present background in math is sufficient for the schools you at examining. Or, maybe it's not. But, I agree as a mother that I would encourage the extra year in math over your other 2 suggested courses.

soozievt

MusThCC is right that not every college requires math. Neither of my two kids' colleges (Brown, NYU/Tisch) required math. Neither took any math in college! However, both tried to take the most rigorous high school courseload which is what a selective college would want to see (UMich is selective). It doesn't matter what you will study in college. My girls took Calculus in 11th grade, in fact. Taking just up through Algebra II is weak for a selective school like UMichigan where many applicants will have taken PreCal/Trig and many also will have taken Calculus. I have met with the admissions liason in the Music School and she also verified that they look for a challenging and demanding high school courseload.

emsrlyons

Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding guys, I'm not just taking really easy classes this year! I'm in Spanish IV honors accelerated, honors english, and a ton of social studies courses. My only "easy" classes are cinema studies and choir. I've also taken AP classes in the past. And as for math, I've taken 3.5 years (algebra I, algebra II, geometry, and trig (one semester is all we need for trig) and all of my colleges I'm applying to require 3 years. My alternative courses I'd switch into are either theatre tech (which is a really rigorous course on backstage theatre) or an independent study in audition preparation where I'd work on my college apps/resumes and prepare my monologues, songs and such for a semester.

I also have a pretty wide range of activities that I participate in and out of school like drama (officer member), musical, speech team, NHS, voice lessons, foreign language club, and am a cast member in the Illinois All-State musical.

I don't know if I'm wrong to, but I'm focusing more on the audition and resume portion. Of course, school is still very important and I'm working very hard to improve my ACT score (though I know it is the min. requirement for UMich so that's why I say hopefully it'll at least get me an audition). My sister is a music performance major at Northwestern with about a 3.8 gpa and a 27 on her act! Obviously she did something right at the audition so this is where I get some of my hopefulness from!

Thanks so much for the advice everyone it helps!!

And also, does the UMich MT program require math? Most MT and music programs are very flexible with electives because of the rigor of the courses.

soozievt

To give you some perspective, I was just looking at the HS course requirements to get into Indiana University which is not as selective as UMich! They are now requiring a min. of Alg. I, Alg. II, Geometry and one semester of either PreCal, Trig, or Calculus. While you have that, UMich is more selective and would prefer more. While you say your colleges REQUIRE three years of math, please be aware that colleges are providing the MINIMUM requirements for admission. When you are aiming at an academically selective school like UMich, your odds increase if you go beyond the min. requirement. Many applicants will have four years of math and will have gone at least through one full year of PreCal or Trig (many going beyond that). If a school requires 2 or 3 years of Foreign Language, the stronger applicants will have four or five years, for example. If you come from a HS that offers many APs, and have taken very few, that will not be as demanding of a curriculum that a selective school like UMich prefers to see. Can you still get in? Sure. The odds are lower, however, for those with test scores, class rank, rigor of HS curriculum, GPA, etc. that fall to the bottom range of accepted students to that particular selective university. So, the thinking should not be what is the min. required to be admitted but rather, what will make me a strong applicant in the pool of other very strong applicants to such a selective university.

By the way, the mid ACT score range for UMich is 26-32.

PLEASE NOTE FROM UMICHIGAN'S WEBSITE:

***I added the bold for emphasis per this discussion.

Again, the min. requirement is three years of math and you meet it. But when a college says it "strongly recommends" certain HS courses, it behooves the applicant to do what is possible to put themselves more favorably in contention by following those recommendations.

perischack

As usual, Soozievt makes excellent points. Yes, we were comfortable not having my son take Math as a senior, but he had gone through junior year on the Honors track, and so, functionally, had completed the curriculum required for acceptance into even the toughest academic programs (unless he was looking to be a Math or Science major, which, of course, he wasn't!). As well, the rest of his schedule was replete with AP and Honors classes, and his standardized test scores were where they needed to be.

It is imperative to look at all such decisions in the context of the entirety of your application. My son added a Music Theory class when he dropped Math, something we knew would both look good and be good for him.

I think you also need to have a handle on how a grade in any particular class might impact the rest of your application. I may be wrong, but a low grade in Math could drag you down, while you'd look better with a higher grade in another subject. In our case, replacing Calculus with Music Theory turned an eighty-something into a 100, and since everything else fell into place, it was a no-brainer. As always, however, individual mileage will vary!

emsrlyons

That's exactly my issue. While I know that having precalc on my transcript will look good, I'm just worried about what it might do to my gpa. I know I can get a B but at the same time, I have the option of taking a course where I can get an A while working on my college applications and audition pieces. I just don't know which option will be more recognized by UM or my other top schools!

soozievt

emsrlyons....Colleges don't look at GPA out of context. WHAT you take is ALSO very important to a selective college. They would rather see a more demanding curriculum or courses where you got a B than easier courses where you got an A. Ideally, of course, they'd love to see demanding courses where you got an A . I believe Perischack's son took AP Music Theory. He was going for MT programs. I don't think Theater Tech looks the same, and surely not the same as Math. Also, her son took up through PreCal I believe and you will have only a half year of PreCal. It is not comparable the two situations here. As far as a period in the day for audition prep....to be very frank, my own kid and everyone else I know, had to do audition prep outside of classtime at school. You also need to look at the big picture of your application package for a school like UMich because your test scores are in the lower range of admissions there, lowering your odds and so to help mitigate that, take the most demanding courses that you can (and do well).

Mollysmom

Doe anyone have any information on AU's mt program? My daughter is not sure about going for a conservatory level mt program or one in which she can take other classes, such as Emerson (which is her top choice). After spending six weeks at an intensive pre-college mt program she is not sure she would be happy just taking acting classes,etc. for 4 years. She is a strong academic student having taken a rigorous courseload but not advanced in math. She liked Skidmore but it has no mt and she needs music not just straight theatre. Any other suggestions ?

emsrlyons

Okay well I contacted the department of admissions for the music, theater and dance school and the woman told me that they're only looking for 12 credits of compilitive completion for math, social science, lab and english. She also told me that not taking precalc would not affect my admission at all. I think I'm going to go with the audition prep course because my community doesn't offer them outside of school and my out of school life is veery busy either way. She was very helpful and basically told me to concentrate on nailing my audition! Thanks so much for recommending the number to me Shelley! It really did help!