nceph

Thanks, tyr. I was basing my understanding of UNC's use of graduate student TAs on a number of reports. My H is a UNC graduate and has said that many of his classes in the first two years (in the French, English, political science and psychology departments) were taught by TAs. Yes, I know that was a loooooong time ago, and it sounds like UNC must have made an effort to reduce those numbers since then. Still, UNC does have graduate students, so I'm assuming they must teach some classes.

When my D and I attended scholarship day two years ago, some of the students on the panel were up front about having had classes and/or recitations taught by TAs but noted that if you were in the honors program it was less likely to occur. One of the student panelists even said he thought sometimes it was better to have a TA than a professor.

And then I have seen some threads here on CC, such as this one (specifically posts ##14 and 23):
UNC is NOT for everyone Everyone jumped on this person who reported his experience, but I have no reason reason to doubt what he reported. Different kids, different experiences.

heathergee

Honestly, I think you should consider environment as a VERY close second to academics. Who cares if you're getting a great education but feel uncomfortable and don't fit in for 4 years?

nceph

I agree with you, heathergee, which is why I suggested the OP visit. It's the best way to get a sense of the environment, both academic and social.

tyr

Out of over 2500 class offerings at UNC, I do not doubt that there are a number of classes taught by graduate students and did not intend to imply otherwise. However, I don’t think that there are as many as might be suggested in the posts of the disgruntled student you referred to. It is true that my son did not have to take many lower level courses due to AP credits, so it is possible that a greater percentage of TA taught classes fall into that area than I might be aware of. I would note that other posts on the thread you cite are consistent with my son’s experience.

uncfan33

Williams is the number 1 ranked liberal arts school in the country. If you want a great education and not have to worry about the ENORMOUS class sizes at UNC, go with Williams, its clearly the better choice. Think about it number 1 vs Number 28th.

tyr

uncfan, there are certainly some large classes at UNC, just as there are at other schools, including Williams. There is not doubt class sizes at Williams would generally be small than at UNC. However, given that over 1750 of the 2500 classes taught at UNC have 30 students or less, I think your statement is somewhat off the mark.

You would be making a serious mistake to chose a school solely based on rankings. As has been noted, UNC and Williams are very different schools, with each having its own strengths and weaknesses. Given the differences, I think it unlikely that a student would really like both of them.

cloying

I haven't read everyone's responses to this thread so I hope my response isn't repetitive.

I picked UNC in part because I knew for sure that I would be going to law school... It's something that I've wanted for myself since I was in ninth grade. The political science program here is excellent, the people are humble and active, and the price is right. My best friend looked seriously at Williams and Amherst and ended up going to Amherst, and from what I hear from her, Williams, though filled with bright people, wasn't as socioeconomically diverse and existed in a bit of a bubble, as beautiful as that bubble may be.

Both are excellent schools, and I think if you have to choose between them then you have an excellent choice ahead of you - but ultimately the experiences you'll have at Williams and UNC are totally different because of the class size, the location, and the fact that it's a private school versus a public school. I think you have to visit both to figure out where you feel more comfortable, because either can offer you excellent opportunities.

Sachmoney

Go to Williams. UNC is a great school with a great political science department, but Williams is a top three liberal arts school in the country! Don't let these people's ignorance of Williams deter you. I think you would really enjoy it there.

ninja.of.love

UNCfan, the most common class-size at UNC is 10-19 according to Princeton Review. 95% of classes have fewer than 100 students and about 70% have fewer than 30. Coming from a high school where 35-40 student classes are normal for all non-AP classes (25-30 in those), I really don't think that's "ENORMOUS," especially when you look at what classes are over 30 students (Beginning Jogging, a required PHYA class, for instance). Using rankings as evidence in an individual situation is foolhardy, especially since they don't consider economic, environmental, or specialized factors, like majors.

You can access UNC's course directory to see what classes are required for the major and see the enrollment in those courses. I don't know if you can do the same for Williams, but it's worth a look.

OP, wherever you end up, remember that you get out what you put into your education.

armcp

yeah seriously go to williams if you haven't decided to do so already. you will get tons of great interaction with Phds---something I never have had at unc, since every class, from my experience, that is lucky enough to be taught by a Phd has 100+ people. i'm currently looking at law schools, and i have just realized that i have no Phds/full time professors with whom i am well acquainted that can write me LORs. all of the instructors that i have had the opportunity to get know personally have been graduate students. publications and the school itself say that the student-to-faculty ratio is 14/1, but that most definitely includes graduate students, administrative workers, and perhaps even cafeteria workers! very misleading stats, IMO.

even though the general public may be more familiar with unc than williams, graduates schools will most definitely know both.

uncfan33

Yeah, graduate schools will know both schools, but if they see that you went to williams they will automatically associate that with excellence. Thats not to say that you can't achieve the same thing at UNC. However at williams being the number 1 liberal arts school, you will be set up for anything you want to pursue after 4 years of college, whether it be the job market or graduate school.

Maximus001

I have to agree with some of the comments above. As wonderful as UNC is, it's hard to pass up an education at Williams. I think the real advantage of prestige is the interaction available with your profs and peers. Then again, you have an enviable conflict. Good luck!

jct30

omg go to Williams. It fits you much better and it is a better education. you'd have more fun at UNC, but o well

Krazer

since you want a solid liberal arts background williams would be a better choice. It is a strong liberal arts school and while UNC is great in political science, williams would suit you better.

gijonman

williams
-nothing to do
-academically rigorous
-best liberal arts school in country

UNC
-amazing campus
-great academics
-more opportunities
-not as rigorous
-better athletics
-more school spirit
-better weather

So if you want a repeat of high school got to williams and/or care significantly about reputation. However if you want to go to a great fun school pick UNC.