FG13

i am going for a solid liberal arts curriculum probably majoring in Political Science. williams seems to be the better one academically overall but would unc's poli sci program be comparable? i prefer the environment... at unc but still have academics as my first priority. williams or unc?

Atlmom

never heard of williams. maybe that is relevant.

Defrasne

lol its true no one in the south knows of williams (or bowdoin, amherst, or even davidson for that matter) but it is none the less a GREAT GREAT school. i dont think you can go wrong but two things im unsure about williams are its location and that everyone is highly sports driven and cliquish. being a purple cow would be cooler than being a tarheel though lol

Atlmom

Now Davidson is a neighbor here....and I have heard of Amhurst and have a nephew at KNOX which no one knows of either. Just how can you be sports driven for purple cows???? that is as bad as blue hens (delaware?) I think that the environments are very diff in those small liberal arts schools vs. large public university albeit liberal arts university. My nephew never really took any real courses, and that is proving negative in applying to grad school as his school transcript does not compare to a large university's....so he is sitting out a year to decide what is next.

I guess a "tarheel" is hard to visualize too....for cheering purposes that is why some person decided painting a ram's horns blue made a better mascot....

Williams huh?! will have to look into that one. Top ranked small liberal arts college vs. 5th ranked public university....apples and oranges. Look at the majors offered and if you plan on going further with your education look at their graduate school placement rate. Then think about type of students, climate, distance from home, etc. I don't know you well enough to answer those questions. good luck though. Good choices!

dntw8up

UNC's poli sci department is excellent. As a university with a graduate poli sci program I think the variety of poli sci class offerings at UNC are greater.

ninja.of.love

Are you kidding? Tar Heel is a term steeped in North Carolina history. A Purple Cow or an Eph isn't nearly as cool as the Tar Heel. Calling yourself an Eph would be like a UVa student calling himself a Jefferson; it's silly.

FG, I'd take UNC over Williams unless you're definitely going to graduate school. UNC's polisci is strong but I can't compare it to Williams'. Political Science at Carolina is known as a challenging and deep major. UNC has an advantage in that you'll have the opportunity to work in graduate-level classes. I believe UNC has more depth in terms of integrated political science, especially with Public Policy (my bread and butter) and PWAD Studies (Peace, War, and Defense). My guess is you'll have more flexibility at UNC than at Williams because of APs, which will you get you through gen.ed. faster and into stuff you actually want to study. That's just an assumption though, I don't know Williams' specific AP policy (I'm familiar with Davidson and Carleton's) or your particular situation. If you're an accepted student (or a realistic contender for next year) though, you'll probably have some AP or IB credits on your transcript.

UNC has more of a proletarian reputation, while Williams is known for admitting a lot of white, upper-class, athletic, legacy prepsters. That's not just me talking, that's from some guidebooks.

“Where is the diversity? Look at everyone in his or her pink polo shirts and J.Crew sandals. Nobody in their right mind can call this diversity.” - A Williams Student

FG13

to address some questions raised: i am definitely going on with law school and with this in mind am looking for a very good college to take me to a very prestigious law school (harvard, yale...) with that in mind, williams ranks 5th among all in sending the most % of students to the top grad schools. would going to unc provide that same advantage as going to a place like williams with very high academic standards?

nceph

FG13 - My son will probably be picking Williams over UNC (and the other schools he got into). Have you visited Williams? That's the best way to determine whether you would like it.

It's a lot more than just "sports driven." There's a significant arts and theatre scene, too, and most students there are multifaceted. It's a liberal arts college, so one significant difference between it and UNC would be that there are no grad student TAs teaching courses or sections at Williams.

tyr

FGI3

I think you will have a hard time finding a college that will “take” you to a prestigious law school. What you will find are colleges that offer you the opportunity to challenge yourself academically and develop the critical reading and writing skills necessary to be successful in law school. Both UNC and Williams can provide that opportunity.

Percentages can be useful information, but you have to consider them in context. I would expect students at Williams to be successful in grad and professional school placement. Its admissions are very competitive and it has some very bright students. Those students are likely to have been successful ever if they attended a less prestigious school. By the same token, there are many students at UNC that could have been accepted to Williams or other more “elite” schools and they can also be expected to be successful, though in lower percentages as UNC students do have a somewhat broader range of academic ability. It is important to keep in mind that the percentages of any given school’s grad / professional admission rates apply to the group as a whole and not to individuals within the group. Ultimately, your law school acceptances will primarily be determined by the combination or your GPA and LSAT score, not the name on your diploma. I think you would find that students at UNC and Williams with similar GPA / LSAT combinations will have much the same result in the law school admissions process. Don’t get fooled into thinking that a more “elite” name on your diploma is any guarantee success or will add material value to a law school application.

The are lots of reasons to chose UNC over Williams, or vice versa, but I would not be inclined to let either school’s grad / professional school placement percentages be of significant influence.

tyr

nceph,

Do you have any idea how many or what percentage of courses at UNC are taught by TA's, exclusive of recitation sections?

nceph

No, please tell me what percentage of courses at UNC are taught by TAs. All I know is it's greater than the percentage at Williams, which is 0. Not sure why you're excluding recitation sections, as sections at Williams are also led by professors, not grad students. I wasn't passing judgment, just pointing out a difference. As you say, there are reasons to choose either one. Visiting the schools is the best way to figure out which one is preferable for an individual student.

tyr

Actually, I don't know the answer. However, since you don't appear to either I think it is a little misleading to imply that courses taught by TA’s are prevalent at UNC. At least if my son's experience is any indicator, they are not.

nceph

Ok, tyr. What year is your son? How many of his courses have been taught by TAs? How many sections has he had that have been taught or led by a TA? That might be helpful information for the OP.

mkm56

My son has only been at UNC for one year--but he has had no TAs for lectures. He has had TAs for recitations and labs.

tyr

nceph, I am not trying to pick an argument, but rather to correct an apparent, and oft repeated, misconception. There are many differences between a university like UNC and a small liberal arts school like Williams which should be considered by a student in making a school selection, but I do not think the likelihood of having any significant number of course taught by a graduate student is one of them.

To answer your question, my son has been at UNC for more than three years. In that time, he has had one course taught by other than a professor, and in that case the class had a very narrow focus and was taught by a PHD candidate who specialized in that subject; he has been one of my son’s favorite instructors. He has had a number of classes where graduate students led recitation sections. Whether having TA’s teaching recitation sections is a negative or not is, I suppose, up to the opinion of each person. In my experience, some graduate students can be just as good, if not better, teachers as full professors. Unfortunately, being awarded a PHD does not seem to automatically confer great teaching skills.

I doubt my son’s experience is materially different from that of most other students. If you have any information to the contrary, I will certainly stand corrected.