Difficulty of ND classes

emswim · 03-01-2006, 07:35 AM

When I last visited ND, most of the students I talked to (mostly pre-med bio majors) said classes were extremely difficult. This concerned me because I am premed/bio and would like to get at least a 3.6. None of these people had even a 3.0, and they had gotten like 35 on the ACT. I know college is difficult, but this seemed extreme. Is this typical, or were these students perhaps exceptions who are not working very hard?

kevdude · 03-02-2006, 08:26 PM

Well, I'm not sure, considering that I don't attend Notre Dame (I'm still in high school, I'm just an applicant), but it seems to me like something like a 3.0 at other places would be miserable, but at a school like Notre Dame, it's good. I mean, unless you're planning to go to graduate school, what does your college gpa mean? Not a whole lot, as long as you don't fail. And even if you are prepping yourself for grad school, they'll see "Oh man, this kid went to ND - that school is super-competitive and difficult," and a 3.0 won't hurt you too badly anyway.

irish68178 · 03-02-2006, 09:49 PM

I think that Nemo can answer this more than I can but from what I have inferred it is a lot of work and is very challenging here. I don't think it is like a lot of other schools where they actively try to get you to quit, but it would be hard to do it if you wouldn't love it. I think that getting a 3.6 will be very challenging but I would strongly warn you against picking a college based on where they have easy classes...if you want that you may as well go to a community college. I don't mean to insult because I used to think the same way you are thinking but really, if you come here you come here to get the best education you can and med schools will know that. We have a great record with getting kids into medical school, so don't stress it too much...it is going to be challenging here but it is doable if you want it bad enough and are willing to work. Just know that going below a 3.6 is very possible here; it is going to be a challenge! If you are coming here, however, you should want a challenge.

emswim · 03-02-2006, 09:58 PM

I understand my goal is very ambitious, and I may have to readjust. I would rather set a goal too high and miss it than set a goal too low and underachieve. I will definitely not choose a school based on the ease of classes, as I like being challenged. Sorry if I gave the impression that I wanted an easy school. I just wanted to make sure that getting reasonably good grades was doable. I realize that I will have to make sacrifices to get the grades I am trying to get. However, a 3.0 would definitely hurt in med school admissions. My research mentor had to apply to medical school three times before getting in despite a 95th percentile MCAT because of a lower (probably about 3.0) GPA at an elite school. Thanks for your opinions everyone, and I hope to hear from Nemo.

RedButton33 · 03-02-2006, 10:05 PM

you will be fine emma

emswim · 03-02-2006, 10:32 PM

Thanks JF. It took me a minute to figure out who you were, then I started laughing.

irish68178 · 03-02-2006, 10:33 PM

I agree, I think you will be fine here, but I did want to stress it isn't a walk in the park and really I think that it is good to be up for a challenge (though it is frightening too)! Just remember that ND gets some rediculous number (it is like 80-90%) of its pre-meds into med school (can someone look this up for me, I am not sure what it is but I think it is in that book admissions gives you) so don't stress the exact GPA so much. I know I have been known to do the same but just do your best and know that you may not have a 3.6 at ND. I know kids that had lower GPA's and got into solid medical schools so it is possible. Anyways, sorry if I was harsh but I just wanted to make sure you were coming in with the right mindset and you knew what to expect and it sounds like both are true in your case. It will be a struggle, but then again I do know a pre-med with a 3.9 here...it can be done.

RedButton33 · 03-02-2006, 11:07 PM

haha... ohh em. i bet i was the last person you expected

nemo2001 · 03-03-2006, 01:05 AM

sorry for the delay in posting to this after irish gave me such a nice intro several posts ago....been a little too busy to play on this board.

emswim - my own judgement is you found the students who weren't working that hard at all. I did not find freshman year to be that hard at all, but then again I know a number of people who are overwhelmed by it. Establish good study habits early, take decent notes (some find that re-writing notes legibly after class helps them to retain the material plus it gives them something to study off of later that is readable. Other people make friends in classes and form study groups. The FYS is very good resource for new students, it offers group/individual tutoring for a lot of the classes you might have to deal with Freshman year.

I'm a loner when it comes to studying and I'll be the first to admit I didn't take advantage of all the resources available to us....so "do what I say, don't do what I did." Nahh, you should be fine though if you are willing to work. The harder year is sophomore year with orgo....

astrife · 03-03-2006, 05:48 PM

Just attending any old medical school is not the aim of many. Medical schools are number whores (check out SDN). And to be competitive at top tier medical schools you need a 3.6+ from a place like ND, or a 3.9+ from a less competitive school. And despite what many think, a 3.2 at Harvard will not trump a 4.0 at a state school. It's not always wise to go to the harder undergrad just because it's well known in the case of medical school. I don't have the links to cite, but there is statistical data out there that shows that pre-meds from MIT do not get compensated suffenciently for their deflated GPA's as a result of MIT's well known rigour. There are quite a bit of people that go to schools that are academically challenging beyond their means and they do not fair so well when it comes time to apply to medical school. I could spout many andectodal stories about this, but I'll save you as their value is nil.

The point is if you aspire to go on to a top tier medical school an overly challenging school is not always the best option. This is a risk when attending many of the top undergrads in the US as they are filled with many of the best and brightest and your curves are set against them. I would say if you are of average intelligence, but you have achieved your academic success through pure grit, and it has been midly difficult to attain the stats that allow you to go to a school like ND then to precede with caution as the pure grit you put forth in high school may not net you the same results at ND or any other well known school. However, determination is the type of thing I believe that could get a person of average intelligence a 3.9+ at a state school and combined with a good MCAT and decent EC's, top medical schools are well within your reach. On the other hand if you go to a hard school and get a low GPA those types of schools are going to be out of your reach sadly.

Just my .02 cents.

top10hopeful · 03-11-2006, 06:48 PM

I've been accepted to ND for class of 2010, and I've heard from multiple students that I've talked to that course work is not that much different from high school, especially freshman year. But then again, most of those ppl went to challenging high schools so you gotta keep it in perspective i guess.

hopeful4cornell · 03-11-2006, 07:03 PM

i agree 100% with astrife.

SouthJerseyChessMom · 03-11-2006, 08:23 PM

top10hopeful, you wrote on another site that you are currently a freshman at Villanova, yet, you write that you are accepted to ND for class of 2010 ...
could you clarify ?????

top10hopeful · 03-11-2006, 09:12 PM

i am a parttime student at nova this year and am switching full time to another college, so i will be starting as a freshman...class of 2010...get it?

mhawk177 · 03-11-2006, 09:52 PM

I'm actually a pre-med freshman at ND. I'm surprised to hear that you encountered so many 3.0s... but don't be discouraged.. it's very possible to do well here! My first semester I managed a 3.57 ( I could have done better had I focused harder), and that was due mainly to my slacking in Chemistry. Classes are hard, don't get me wrong and they can sometimes be intense. But I wouldn't sweat it, I nailed my study habits this semester and so far have a B+ in chem with high hopes for an A. A 3.6 is very reasonable while maintaining a healthy social life ( I promise!). If nothing else, as stated above First Year of Studies is awesome to go to for help! They provide small group tutoring and study sessions for most difficult subjects. So again, don't be discouraged.. and know that I'm definitely not one of the smartest here and I will manage a 3.5-3.6 GPA while still retaining my sanity and friends. :-) I love it here!
Also, top10hopeful seems to be harboring some biased negative sentiments, trust me that ND isn't ranked in the top 20 for nothing!
GO IRISH!!!