Amherst vs. Dartmouth vs. Notre Dame

shellzie2006 · 04-01-2006, 10:06 PM

Hey guys, I posted this in the other forums as well. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

I got the last responses from my colleges today, and the verdicts are:

Rejected from: Swarthmore and Princeton
Waitlisted by: Williams
Accepted to: Connecticut College, Colgate, University of Minnesota-Twin Cities (Honors Program with substantial merit money), Amherst, Dartmouth (likely letter), and Notre Dame (Accepted EA and applied to Honors Program)

I've got it pretty much narrowed down to three schools: Amherst, Dartmouth, and Notre Dame (if I am accepted to the Honors Program)

I've been compiling a list of pros and cons for each school which I will post later, but for now, what are everyone's thoughts on the three schools? (The "follow your heart" advice wouldn't be very helpful at the moment as my heart is currently very conflicted....)

I plan to major in biochemistry/biology and minor in Chinese. I would also like to keep the possibility of applying to medical school open and I hope to study abroad in China at some point in college. Thanks for your help!

bill_smear · 04-02-2006, 10:59 AM

Listen, I love Notre Dame and all, but it would be very tough for me to turn down a school as prestigious as Dartmouth. Just my two cents.

irish68178 · 04-02-2006, 11:26 AM

I disagree with Bill actually...one of the things I have learned is at all the top schools you really can get about the same great education anywhere and the difference is in some resources, but really you get out of it what you put into it. That is just my opinion; I think if you look too much at prestige you may go to a school that is more prestigous but lacks in other ways. The question is what do you want your college experience to be like?

If you check out my website at www.nd.edu/~mnadorff/transfer I do have a part talking about some of the differences you find between Notre Dame and other top colleges. You just have to think about what factors are important to you. If you are obsessed with prestige (not to put that down, lots of people are) then go elsewhere. That being said there are a lot of things that Notre Dame is un-matched with. If having a place that places an emphasis on faith and that will help build your faith up rather than tear it down (but also allow for some testing of your faith) then I would say ND is the place. If you want a school with a great amount of school pride and good athletics (which are a lot of fun btw) then ND could be the one too. If you like the idea of midwestern values, let me tell you that the people out here are very nice and truly do care about you as a student. The students, faculty and staff all seem to get along very well which is really cool! If you want a lot of cutthroat competition ND may NOT be the place for you. The work here is tough, there is no doubt about that, but the students all really work together to help each other... I honestly doubt you will find that at those other two schools but I don't know for sure.

Prestige is good, it can open doors, but with the ND alum association I would have to think that a degree from ND could do as much there as a degree from Dartmouth or Amherst (actually probably more than Amherst since it doesn't have quite as good of name recognition with the general public).

No matter what you are going to get a good education but I think you have to look at where you want to spend the next four years of your life and what you want the college experience to be like. Check out websites like www.**************.com and see what actual students say about their school.

I hope that helps. I wouldn't just look at prestige, however, unless that is what is most important to you. Just know if that is the case that the school may be prestigious but may lack in other ways, which is why ND always has transfers from some top schools like Princeton and Stanford.

eadad · 04-03-2006, 11:28 PM

First off, congratulations on such fine choices. Have you visited either Dartmouth or Amherst? Your three final choices are very different in personality and culture. ND is the largest and by far the most conservative of the three, has 80 % of students in dorms all four years, and has a very strong male oriented culture despite its now almost 47% female poplulation. There are a large number of former high school athletes at ND and the only full equipment intramural tackle football league that I know of anywhere. All three schools are a bit remote but ND=South Bend.

Amherst is probably the most liberal of the three and also the smallest. Living in Amherst you get a sort of best of all worlds scenario with the 5 colleges and 25,000 students for social reasons but a very small, intimate learning environment. You are about an hour and a half from Boston. Hanover and Dartmouth represent the quintessential New England college/ town. Although it has a law and medical schools and a superb graduate business school, Dartmouth's focus, like Amherst is on the undergradate experience.

As far as liberal/conservative attitudes etc., ND has far more rigid rules and regs concerning intervisitaion, dorm curfews etc whereas the other two have coed dorms that are room to room as well as floor to floor and 24 hour 7 day a week visitation is the norm in most dorms.

I think academically you can accomplish what you want at any of the three. Dartmouth does carry with it the mantle of being an Ivy and Amherst is one of the toughest schools annually at which to gain acceptance. I think the overall academic environment at both Amherst and Dartmouth will be stronger (compare SATs for starters) and both offer a more intimate small college experience. ND will have a broader cross section of students, will be less academically intense ( I didn't say less challenging) and has more of a jock school (not meant to mean dumb jocks but rather a lot of jocks) feel. What experience do you most desire and what fits your personality best?

shellzie2006 · 04-04-2006, 01:19 AM

Thanks for the responses. I definitely like the conservative aspect of Notre Dame, because, while being exposed to different opinions is all fine and good, I've spent too many years of my life in a school environment in which I am one of a very small conservative minority (and the only practicing Catholic). I am also not entirely opposed to the dorm regulations. The size and sports culture are probably what concern me most about Notre Dame. I like the idea of an LAC, but, since I want to major in science, it seems like ND or Dartmouth would have more to offer in terms of research opportunities (especially since I've just been admitted to the Honors Program). And I am not a very sports-oriented person, although I have nothing against them.

irish68178 · 04-04-2006, 02:47 AM

You don't have to be sports oriented, I both know people who don't care about the sports and ignore them as well as those who go to the football games and cheer when everyone else yells. It is your choice, but you are not chastised for not liking sports, I think it is more like they are there if you want them, and a lot of the people here love them, but if you aren't into them it isn't going to limit you in any way that I can think of. Also, if you want a school with a true Catholic character where religion is lived (unlike Georgetown) and not just in name and where faith is fostered...ND is the place to be. That is something that I think ND offers that the other two don't.

corranged · 04-04-2006, 05:10 PM

My sister had to decide between Notre Dame and Dartmouth, as well. My father went to ND, and we've all been raised on it since birth. She chose Dartmouth, though, and is extraordinarily happy. She says that besides the weak football, the two schools are a lot alike in terms of general feel and alumni relations. My father agrees, and he is very happy with Dartmouth.

irish68178 · 04-04-2006, 05:15 PM

Good to hear someone that has Dartmouth info as well, thanks Corraged!!!

shellzie2006 · 04-04-2006, 08:12 PM

Thanks, Corranged! I think I have narrowed it down to just Notre Dame and Dartmouth now. I can definitely see what you mean about alumni relations- Notre Dame alums were the first to contact me after my acceptance and already people from Dartmouth have been calling me and someone even came to my house today to give me a free T-shirt!

irish68178 · 04-04-2006, 09:28 PM

I think that that is something to consider. Look at that and look at these boards and see which schools are active and which ones aren't... if the people at these schools (or with connections to these schools) are this willing ot help you now, imagine later when you are looking for a job or what not. It makes a difference!

ajh33 · 04-09-2006, 04:09 PM

choose ND...football, so sick. im going to amherst but in this situation id choose ND.

Ph0enix · 04-09-2006, 08:30 PM

The basic pros of each school are:

Dartmouth is the most prestigious of the three

Amherst would probably offer you the best quality "liberal arts education", IF that is what you are looking for.

ND probably has the best campus life, school pride, and flexibility in what you would want to study.

Quote:

I plan to major in biochemistry/biology and minor in Chinese. I would also like to keep the possibility of applying to medical school open and I hope to study abroad in China at some point in college. Thanks for your help!

All three colleges are prestigious and will allow you to do everything you listed. So it really depends on what else you are looking for. I suggest visiting each college and see which one you like best.

nemo2001 · 04-09-2006, 08:51 PM

also let's be pragmatic here. All three are top-tiered institutions it would be foolish not to consider the financial aid/scholarship/cost of attendence factor. My opinion at least....

irishmeghan23 · 04-09-2006, 09:20 PM

i dont really know that much about the other schools other than they are great schools. as for if you are going to be a biochem/bio major, notre dame has good departments in both of them. the only down side to being a biochem major is that your schedule doesnt allow for much felxibility anywhere. if you wanted to do biochem and chinese then you would probably have to apply for overload work almost every semester unless you took summer classes because being a bio major is almost like being a double major in bio and chem here... you generally have 17 or 18 credits a semester not including credits you get from doing research. An overload is anything more than 18 credits. Also if you are going to be in the honors program that is going to limit your flexibility even more because of all the required classes they have. Being a bio major would give you more flexability, but still not very much.

shellzie2006 · 04-09-2006, 09:31 PM

@ nemo, all three schools would cost about the same amount of money tuition-wise, so the only difference would be a possible small scholarship (I'm not yet sure of the amount, but I'm sure it would be less than 10k total) from the Knights of Columbus. It's not a decisive factor, but surely something to consider.

@ irishmeghan, thanks for the insight on classes. Do you think it is worth it to do the Honors Program if I want to study both biochem and Chinese?