Anti-legacy

ktwoo · 04-04-2006, 04:18 PM

Now that everyone has received their decisions at my school, I am finding that having a legacy seems to be more valuable than a strong GPA. Only three out of 11 were accepted and two of them have fathers who attended ND and the other's mom went to St. Mary's (not sure if that helps or not). I find it very unfair the way someone who at mid-year had a C in a regular level Pre-Calc class and has taken only 6 total Honors/AP courses compared to the 16 higher level courses that I and several other rejected applicants had taken was chosen over us likely due to the legacy factor. When I visited ND, they said several times that they expect applicants to have taken the most difficult class schedule possible, but apparently having a legacy trumps that. It's pretty horrible that more qualified applicants are turned down due to a factor very much out of the applicant's control: where his or her parents attended college. Admissions seems to be nothing but a ploy to ensure that alumni continue to give hefty donations after their child is accepted. I am in no way trying to say that legacy kids are academically inferior compared to those who aren't because I know that often isn't the case; I'm just frustrated and needed to rant a bit. I am probably not the only one who feels this way.

irish68178 · 04-04-2006, 04:32 PM

First of all, I am not a legacy and I was rejected the first time around even though I knew a few legacies that got in with similar stats. That being said, I understand why legacy is upsetting to you. That being said, while I hated it at first, I have come to accept it more and more as I have been here. In a lot of ways it all comes back to the Notre Dame family idea. Notre Dame is different than most any other school you will find out there in that we really stick together and try to help each other out, probably more than anywhere else. I know the Ivy's will argue this, but we have alumni clubs all over the nation and even all over the world I believe and we are a very close-knit group. Once you go to Notre Dame you become part of the Notre Dame family and that is something that sticks with you through your whole life. Likewise, it carries on to your kids giving them an advantage of getting into Notre Dame so that they can have the same advantage you had. About 25% of the incomming class will be children of alumni and while you sometimes can tell in a class if a person is a legacy or not, it usually isn't something you can notice. There are a lot of smart legacy kids...good genes.

Legacies do get a significant help in admissions but so do minorities for example. Also, they will not get in if they are not qualified. I personally know an individual who was not qualified but had all of his brothers and sisters go to ND and had his dad give a million dollars a year to the school. He was rejected. Money always plays a role at any school, and I know that legacy can look very iffy at times, but I really think that it is more about the Notre Dame family than anything else. Let's be honest, Notre Dame gets a lot of money, I don't think they are hurting in that area (especially with the cost of tuition).

I don't know, I hope that helps a little bit since it comes from someone who is not a legacy, though I am a bit biased now as my children will have legacy...but who cares about them, lol

fingerscrossed · 04-04-2006, 04:46 PM

I tend to agree with ktwoo...it msay be a very good thing for the school, though I don't think they distinguish between legacy's who donate large amounts of money and those who don't. My daughter and several others at her school were not admitted, while legacy kids with pretty significantly lower stats did get in. I know stats isn't the only that matters, but just looking at the kids who got in and didn't the only kids with lower stats that were accepted were legacy kids. Good for them...bad for us.

CitricAcid · 04-04-2006, 05:00 PM

You don't like it? Don't apply to ND, they don't force you to. I'm not a legacy and I agree with Notre Dame's decision 100%. They are a private institution and they can do whatever they want. If they feel that giving alumni children a little advantage (not a gigantic advantage) will benefit their school community, they can. It's not up to you or anyone to whine about it.

irish68178 · 04-04-2006, 05:07 PM

I disagree with Citric a bit as well, lol. I am all over the board. I think that they have a right to do it, and it shows the value of the school and how important the ND family is, but is it just...well? You know. I can certainly understand those who don't like it and those who complain because I was one of them. I still don't like seeing more qualified kids being turned down for alumni children who aren't as qualified (though many of them are qualified) but it is just the university's values and something that you will benefit from if you are accepted. It is sticky though, I know! I think it is alright to be mad about it or to not like it, I am still not completely sold on how much help they give, but ND family is ND family.

Ph0enix · 04-04-2006, 05:16 PM

ND's legacy factor in admissions is just like other school's race factor. It may be unfair, but it's just something that you cannot change.

Well if you had the money and time, you may be able to sue the practice of affirmative action, but that's irrelevant. :P

jpp23 · 04-04-2006, 05:30 PM

As the parent of a son who is an ND student, and a daughter who was just accepted, I have to say something here. My kids are legacies - they have nine relatives who have graduated from ND.

It would seem that being a legacy makes it easier for someone to get into Notre Dame, but you also have to realize the pressure that some alumni children experience. From the day my children were born, they were expected to want to go to Notre Dame, and to be good enough to get in. Happily, ND was the first choice for both of them, and they both worked incredibly hard in school -great grades, very good test scores, lots of extra-curriculars and teachers who respected them and wrote good recommendations.

When my daughter visited ND and did an information session, one of the counselors found out that she was a potential multi-generation Domer and made a comment about all the pressure she must be under. She has no idea!At school, teachers and other students would constantly ask her if she was going to ND like her brother.

My niece, who also had all these relatives attend ND, did not get in even though she had a wonderful record. Her parents didn't go to ND, but her mom is a SMC graduate and is an ND employee. However, having a parent who has gone to SMC doesn't help admission to ND, though being an employee's child should.

My youngest daughter is a freshman in high school, and has wanted to go to Notre Dame her whole life. She is already worrying about her chances and is contemplating writing her essay about the pressure she feels to get into ND.

In terms of donations Notre Dame may not get huge donations from us for a while, but they will be getting tuition payments for a long time, however.

CitricAcid · 04-04-2006, 05:40 PM

I'm not saying that it should be a very important factor (and it isn't). I just assume that people who sit around whining about things like affirmative action and legacy factor rather than working that much harder in college aren't wanted at Notre Dame anyway. I know I wouldn't want that.

snajean · 04-04-2006, 05:42 PM

Due to their insistence on valuing legacy status over a student's qualifications, Notre Dame is not always accepting the best students from their applicant pool. This happened in our high school. Yes, Notre Dame can do what they want, but that doesn't earn them respect.

irish68178 · 04-04-2006, 05:42 PM

I see your point but it is also a tough pill to swallow sometimes when someone has the same stats as you and worked just as hard but just because Dad went to ND they are as well and you aren't. However, I do like that the ND family is important; it is one of the best things ND has going for it I believe

irish68178 · 04-04-2006, 05:46 PM

I am not sure how respect goes with who you accept. Regardless, it is important to look at why they do this. They preach that the Notre Dame family is important and what jpp said is true, there is a lot of pressure on alumni kids to go to ND. It is just part of how ND shows that the Notre Dame family is important, an they still do accept 75% of the class from non-legacy families. I don't think that should determine if you respect them or not, however, but perhaps I am wrong. Regardless, I have to go for a few hours, but I look forward to see where this debate goes

CitricAcid · 04-04-2006, 06:04 PM

They don't care that you don't like what they do with their alumni, realize this first.

kate231523 · 04-04-2006, 06:20 PM

Four people from my school applied. One was accepted early, 2 were waitlisted, and I, the only legacy, was rejected. The 3 of them were more qualified than I was so I don't think it is unfair at all. The whole admissions process is so subjective. There are so many quotas that they try to fill. It is true that the legacies have a slight advantage in the admissions process, but even Sarasino's own son didn't get in...I think Notre Dame's admission process is just as fair as any other school.

0collegekid1 · 04-04-2006, 06:54 PM

I'm a legacy - was brought up as Notre Dame being the pinnacle - and did not get in.

fingerscrossed · 04-04-2006, 07:55 PM

Citric...take a pill hon...everyone is entitled to an opinion...even a bad one...so scream all you like, it doesn't change how we feel. We aren't suggesting that ND is bad for doing this, only that it hurts those of us who aren't legacy. ND is a great school, and has every right to manage it's admissions the way they want. It just doesn't feel good when that impacts you. And for sure, being a legacy is no guarantee. Just an added advantage.