How much does a legacy status count?

knaufy · 05-11-2006, 11:28 PM

I've heard all about Notre Dame's policy about legacies...how they reserve 25% of the available spaces in their freshman class for legacies and all of that. But this statistic really doesn't help me much because I have no idea what percentage of the applicants are legacies, what percentage of those legacies actually get in, and how their stats look compared to everyone else. So basically...that's what I'm asking you guys. I'm a legacy...my dad graduated back in '81. I'm a little below the average, I was wondering if it's still a huge long shot for me. I will definitely be in atleast the top 7-8% of my senior class, taking the hardest courses I could and my ECs are numerous. My SATs were satisfactory, but if I score in the high 1300s - 1400 range, am I looking good for admission, or no?

thanks :-)

irish68178 · 05-12-2006, 08:32 AM

Keep working on the rank and the SAT, but I think given that you have legacy you will be fine. Legacy helps a lot at Notre Dame, I would say more than at any other school in the US. I think you have a good shot. Sorry I can't tell you exactly how much but after being on this board for a while I have a decent feel for it and I feel good about your stats, for what it is worth

. Good luck

irishbrigade · 05-12-2006, 02:31 PM

According to a recent article in the Observer, for the incoming freshman class legacies represent almost 10% of the applicants, 17% of the accepted students, and 23% of enrolled students. If you work the math, legacies are accepted at about a 46% rate and the yield is close to 80%. With a top 10% class rank and SATs in the 1300-1400 range, and legacy status, I'd think you have a good chance, assuming the rest of the application stands up. Quality of high school is also important.

Eagle79 · 05-12-2006, 06:06 PM

I don't know that statistics for ND but at Harvard I read somwhere in the past that the acceptance rate for legacies was 40%. Considering that their overall acceptance rate is around 10% that is a huge boost.

However, viewed another way, Harvard also said that the average SAT scores for legacies that they acceptes was on 3 points less than the institutional average.

What does all this mean? Not sure but I would suspect that you are not a long shot at ND. However, as Irish61878 said, work to improve your chances through better SAT scores and improved class rank because nothing is guaranteed. In the Harvard example it also means that they reject 60% of the legacies that apply . . .

irish68178 · 05-12-2006, 08:15 PM

This won't help that much but it may help a bit. The average SAT at ND is what now, 1390 or so? I think that is about right. What I do know from a very good source is that if you do not have legacy or affirmative action on your side, the average SAT score for those students is a 1495. I don't know how much you can read into that but clearly there is a pretty solid advantage being given.

fbrcman · 10-05-2008, 07:48 PM

Hello, does legacy apply to a grandparent or is it just a parent? Thank You.

irishbrigade · 10-05-2008, 09:41 PM

Officially, only parents count as legacy. Other relatives can be mentioned in the supplement, as it shows the degree of interest in ND, but they don't make an applicant eligible to be considered a legacy.

archiemom · 10-06-2008, 01:14 PM

Just another example...S1 had a very rigorous (not "most) transcript, uw GPA of about 3.8, SAT of 1340, 800s on SAT IIs, gobs of ECs and leadership in school, community and church AND both parents and grandfather are alums. He was waitlisted. IMHO, legacy status does not make up for having lower SATs and GPA than the typical ND applicant.

notre dame AL · 10-06-2008, 03:06 PM

I have to agree with archiemom as there was a legacy applicant that applied the same time as our student. Similar stats including identical legacy status but with lower GPA and lower SAT scores. The legacy applicant was rejected. There is a reason that ND requires SAT/ACT scores and grades; I don't think they want to admit applicants that can't do the work. Notre Dame has a very rigorous academic program. If applicants can demonstrate that they can perform on SATs, grades, etc. in the competency range for acceptance, then no amount of legacy is going to make up for those applicants that fall below those ranges. Sure plenty of legacies are admitted, probably some with scores,etc that fall well below accepted ranges. But, I have to wonder if those students that are accepted (legacy or not) are performing well and are successful in classes once they arrive at ND. Legacy helps--but I would not look at it as a sure thing. ND is going to carefully consider those legacy applicants, but I don't think they are going to ignore the other key parts of the legacy applicant's application.

BPKO43 · 10-06-2008, 03:26 PM

it's probably more in your favor nowadays to be a minority than a legacy, in all actuality. just go ahead and check that box under pacific islander or something similarly obscure haha

irish68178 · 10-06-2008, 04:30 PM

Please note that this thread is from back in 2006. Believe it or not, admissions requirements and averages have changed a decent amount since then, and ND is much more selective, so take the numbers I cited above with a grain of salt!

kevdude · 10-06-2008, 08:08 PM

(as I jump up and down and stomp my feet) Self-selecting applicant pool! Self-selecting applicant pool! Self-selecting applicant pool!

This is my standard argument to explain how legacies are not inherently inferior to those who are accepted but not legacies, but also why legacies should not feel over confident (I also use this same concept to explain why Notre Dame is so dominantly Catholic, but that's another issue entirely).

Students who are legacies have grown up, especially at a school like Notre Dame, being constantly served the Notre Dame kool-aid. I for one am not a legacy, but since admission have fully and wholeheartedly imbibed the kool-aid, so I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying, kids whose parents went to Notre Dame and subsequently have applied to Notre Dame know what they're up against. Most of them have done their homework on the school since they became aware of the entire college application process. Barring the kids who are absolutely pressured by their alumnae parents to apply, most of the students have a fairly good idea as to where they stand. The majority of legacy students do not apply to Notre Dame on a whim, they know what they're doing. As such, legacies also have a generally good idea if they're going to get in, as well as a knowledge of what they need to make their application strongest. Those high school students who are so well acquainted with the school, but know they are not a good match or are not likely to be accepted, don't apply. But, on the other hand, those who are determined from basically birth to attend Notre Dame do their damndest to get in, meaning they work extremely hard to try to be in the top 10 percent of their high school, etc, because they know how competitive ND is.

So yes, there is a slight advantage. But Notre Dame alumnae breed Notre Dame families, and Notre Dame kids know what they need to do to get in because they've had it hammered into them for years.

So, my advice? Non-legacies? Work your butt off. And legacies? Don't get presumptuous. And work your butt off.