claremarie

"Claremarie, i think there are other reasons to apply to ND despite its location and sheltered environment, i thank korean_halfbreed for being honest and I don't think he should be poked at for his honesty."

It's not a poke. I just cannot understand why someone who doesn't really like the dorm life, the Catholic identity, the midwest small town location, and the alleged lack of diversity, would have even considered Notre Dame, because he was bound to be disappointed.

Sort of like someone who doesn't really like big cities, "Jewishness", and the lack of other Korean students who nevertheless decides to attend Yeshiva.

It just doesn't make sense.

napoleonspade

Alright then, let me word it differently. It's different being a prospective student compared to actually attending. Maybe ND's strong academics could have persuaded him, however upon actually living there, he experienced things differently than he could have perceived occurring just by solely visiting or reading a fancy pamphlet. It's simple. I also believe it's unnecessary to bring up pointless analogies because you are not contributing to the conversation at all, just being annoying by trying to argue with a poster (halfbreed) whose not even responding to you..probably not even trying to dignify your responses. And it's okay that you "just cannot understand" because that's what being closeminded does to someone. ( I read your past posts, and that's what I couldn't help but conclude) I'm sorry but I just had to laugh upon reading "alleged lack of diversity." Really...I'm sure ND is ranked as one of the lowest schools for diversity for no reason at all.

korean_halfbreed

In reply to your comments claremarie, I completely understand what your trying to say. But apparently, I was pretty naive coming into Notre Dame, and I was so caught up in the hype and excitement of all that I had heard about Notre Dame that I expected nothing more but to love the place. And Frosh-O and all the dorm events at the beginning of the year only fed that glorified vision I had of ND, but as the year went on, I realized that I was just caught up in the moment, and this stuff really doesn't matter to me as much as other things do. Also, to the OP, you should definitely visit the school, and that will most likely help you a lot in getting an idea of whether or not this is a place you want to be. That's something I didn't do, and this also contributed to me being a bit naive. Not cause I didn't feel it was important to visit, my family just can't really afford to fly across the country like that. But like I said, I think I was just caught up with the hype and my expectations, a large part of which came from people like those on this board raving about all the positives and never talking about the negs. Thats why I'm trying to give you a more complete perspective from the other side of the fence, so you will know more what to expect. I'm not saying you wouldn't love it at ND. Most people do, I'm just saying there's a chance you might not, and you wanna try to figure out which side you stand on before you decide to come. And I'm glad you appreciated my candid response. I hope my comments will help you become more confident and comfortable in whatever decision you make.

claremarie

"as the year went on, I realized that I was just caught up in the moment, and this stuff really doesn't matter to me as much as other things do"

Well, that makes a bit more sense. It's not so much that you didn't realize what sort of school Notre Dame was, but rather you didn't fully understand what sort of person YOU are, and what would ultimately be the most important parts of a university experience for YOU.

But even if you had visited, you probably would have had the same impression you had during Frosh-O and the beginning of the school year -- "this is a GREAT place!" -- so it's unlikely that you would have made a different decision. Visits are essentially snapshots of a campus -- you're just not there long enough to form a real impression of the complete undergraduate experience. And, of course, most people you run into will be trying to convince you to come.

So much of the college experience depends upon your roommates and the other people you live with, which is pretty much a random draw. Maybe you would get a different perspective on the school by switching dorms or roommates for next year.

claremarie

Not sure what you mean by "diversity." Notre Dame is about 76% non-Hispanic white, compared to 74% non-Hispanic white in the US population as a whole. Although the percentage of blacks (5%) is well below the US black population as a whole (12%), the percentage of Asian students (8%) is twice the national percentage, and the percentage of Hispanic students (14%) is also higher than the national population.
There are students from every state in the country, from major metro areas to tiny midwestern towns. Nearly half the students receive need-based financial aid from the university, which means that they are not rich. (Indeed, the parents of many students who do not qualify for such aid would not consider themselves rich either).

Yes, the vast majority of students are Catholic, but so is 25% of the country.

Many universities that boast about their diversity may have students of all different colors, but whose (mostly liberal) political and social views are actually very similar.

vc08

I think that's the point many people on here were trying to make. Most people, a VAST majority, of those at ND have very similar religious and political views. Couple that with the fairly low amount of diverse representation nationality-wise and geographically (true, they pull students from every state, but they have what, like 1 person from Montana, Arizona, Hawaii, Utah, etc. The majority of ND students are from the midwest or EC). In comparison to peer institutions, ND boasts a low percentage of blacks, Asians, and Hispanics. Many IL schools have over 10% Black, over 10% Hispanic, and over 20% Asian. UCLA's and UCB's populations contain over 40% Asian, 10% Hispanic, 5% black, etc. 76% white is enormous when considered with 40% white at UCs, 55-60% at IL schools, etc. Again, I think ND's "lack" of diversity comes more from the fact that it is mainly a white, Catholic applicant pool. But it's hard to make an argument for "twice" the national percentage, when similar academic institutions boast 4-times the national population of Asians, 2-times ND's % of Black students, and a similar % of Hispanics.

gallagpl

Notre Dame is an awesome place, however you need to go into knowing sports are huge, single sex dorms, middle of nowhere, and crappy weather. These are things I'd give up for an awesome education, fun time, tight-knit community, and of course football games

PrincessND

claremarie,
The more I read your posts, the more I am offended and taken aback by them. It is this very attitude that there is a typical NOtre Dame student who likes tradition, dorm life, etc. that contributes to Notre Dame's lack of diversity in the first place. We all are drawn in for different reasons and are in no place to judge others for their reasons.

Secondly, it is not enough for Notre Dame's student body to mimic the national demographics; it is important that all colleges look to educating all students, especially caucasian students, to work and live within the society that we will be in the future, which is going to be very different than we are currently. While 8% of Notre Dame's students may be Asian, that's really not much, considering that a disproportinate number of college students are Asian. Diversity, is not about numbers: it's about enriching the educational environment for all. The sooner we realize that, the better off we'll be.

And yes, like most students from elite, exorbitantly priced private colleges, the majority of Notre Dame students come from wealthy backgrounds. There is no way to get around this point. If half of Notre Dame students are on financial aid, that means that HALF PAY OUT OF POCKET, or CAN AFFORD TO PAY nearly $50K each year. That's more than average family income in the United States. Aside from that 50% who are apparently upper class, many of those that I knew who were on financial aid were the children of doctors and other professionals who had multiple kids in college at the same time....far from middle class. To put it frankly, Notre Dame is known as a playground for the upper and upper middle-class. But it's no worse here than any other elite school.

And as far as Notre Dame being "accepting", we need an opinion from someone who is not the typical rich, white, and catholic student. Of course if you fit into any of these categories you are more likely to think that NOtre Dame is accepting. We need minority, non-catholic, middle class (truly middle class) students to discuss their experiences.

Oh and about political diversity: (warning some may find this offensive, but I am somewhat joking), maybe an inclusive and diverse environment is conducive to liberalism...perhaps the conservatives think twice about expressing their views when they are subject to scrutiny by non-likeminded intellectuals?.

DomeGuy10

I'll assume you are joking because you sound equally intolerant.

claremarie

'While 8% of Notre Dame's students may be Asian, that's really not much, considering that a disproportinate number of college students are Asian.'

Just how many Asian-American college students do you think there are? According to the US Dept of Education, the percentage of Asians enrolled in higher education is.... 6.4%. So, Notre Dame actually does enroll a disproportionate number of Asians. It's not fair to compare Notre Dame with a handful of "outlier" schools where Asian students are over-represented.
And I heartily agree that diversity is about more than numbers, which is why I continue to object to the oft-repeated statement on these boards that Notre Dame lacks "diversity." How many other colleges out there can claim to host not only the Vagina Monologues but a regular Tridentine Latin Mass, along with a full complement of Division I sports teams and numerous club teams? How many other comparable schools send graduates not only to top law, medical, and business schools, but also to the ACE program to teach in impoverished Catholic schools?

"If half of Notre Dame students are on financial aid, that means that HALF PAY OUT OF POCKET, or CAN AFFORD TO PAY nearly $50K each year."

No, that means that many Notre Dame families rely on loans because they don't qualify for financial aid, but cannot possibly pay $50K out of pocket. And, as you acknowledged, the economic demographics at Notre Dame are not much different than those at comparable schools. Unfortunately, there is a dearth of truly impoverished students at most of the nation's top universities.

claremarie

"Most people, a VAST majority, of those at ND have very similar religious and political views."

Really? Other than the fact that most students self-identify as Catholic, on what do you base this statement?
For example, on politics -- are there far more members in the Republican vs. the Democratic party clubs? How many Notre Dame students are supporting Obama, Clinton, or McCain in the presidential campaign?

And on religion, exactly what religious views do most ND students hold in common (other than the fact that they are Catholic)? Many students at ND are Catholic in name only -- they rarely or never attend Mass and have no real connection to the faith. Others go to Mass every day and regularly go to confession and Eucharistic adoration. Most are probably in the middle, with "religious views" that are all over the map. So how can you lump them all together as being essentially the same?

LurkNessMonster

My friend's son attends ND and simply loves it. For him, it was the 100 percent best choice. On the other hand, I couldn't get my daughter to even consider ND. She is not religious at all and wanted a more open (liberal) college environment. I think that if you know yourself well and if you find out what ND has to offer, which is considerable, you can make a wise decision. If you got into ND early, you must be a very very strong candidate for other top schools. Best of luck with your decision!

vc08

Your earlier slam on liberalism, for one.

If you honestly cannot answer that question on your own, ND students are far more stupid than I thought.

I'm Catholic. Most Catholics hold the same or very similar views. Don't be arrogant enough to deny it.

You really come off as a very ignorant, arrogant, and self-righteous white girl. I'm going to hope, for the sake of prospective students on this thread, that not all ND students are as pretentious as yourself.

Lurk: well said

gallagpl

First off, lack of diversity and diversity are part of the school, it's just the way it is and probably will be for a while, so pick accordingly. people like claremarie who care this much about diversity do not really like a "diverse" community they just want more of their race at the school so that they can pick them out more easily from the crowd and only converse with them.

vc08

^^I really don't get the impression that claremarie is a minority.