learnmestuff

Just out of curiosity, what do you think about the rankings then, since you wanted "proof"?

eph19

I just wanted to add a little more to the liberal/conservative argument because I did discuss it with my brother, an ND alum, when I was applying. From his perspective, while ND is conservative compared to many other schools, the student body is actually pretty close to a 50/50 split.

JCool

"mmk, I'll go first: 25% white, 25% Black, 25% Asian, 25% other races."

learnmestuff:
Are those really the numbers you want at a college? What about Hispanics? Don't they deserve 25%? Or are you lumping them in with Caucasians in the "whites" category (both Caucasians and Hispanics are technically considered "white")?
Here's an idea...let's not pay attention to race, and instead, let's accept the most outstanding applicants to the school!

claremarie

I don't put much stock in "student surveys" conducted by the Princeton Review hype machine. I'd be far more convinced that Notre Dame is overwhelmingly conservative if you could point to some concrete examples.

For instance, if virtually no one showed up for the Vagina Monologues and students instead held rallies demanding that the play be moved off-campus. Or if the ND College Democrats disbanded because no one was interested in joining. Or if students refused to wear the "Gay? Fine by me" T-shirts that activists hand out on campus. Or if politically liberal students started their own campus newspaper because of concerns that The Observer is too conservative. Or if Fr. McBrien were forced to stop teaching because students refused to register for his classes.

But I'm not seeing anything like that. Instead, what I see are a number of ND students posting on this forum, falling over themselves to assert their liberal and tolerant natures, but noting that most of their classmates are rich, conservative, white Catholics who all look and think alike.

vc08

JCool: I think learnmestuff was kidding

clare: ahh, you don't like the proof so you choose to ignore it. Precisely what I thought. You'd rather trust your knowledge as a parent than multiple surveys conducted by professionals who know WAY more about colleges than you do. Lovely

Well, perhaps that should tell you something, since after all, they ARE the ones going to school there. Because this topic was all about diversity in the first place, wasn't it. So now we know, ND is a liberal Catholic university with lots of rich white people. Glad we got that cleared up

claremarie

You can't come up with a single concrete example of the overwhelmingly conservative nature of the school?
(Single-sex dorms don't count, of course, because those have been imposed by the administration, not freely chosen by the students.)

It would appear that the students concerned about diversity have little to fear.

JCool

Touche. It's tough to read sarcasm over the internet.

Cincinnati

Notre Dame is a Catholic university located in the heart of the Midwest. Why does Notre Dame have to change to be something it is not. If you are looking for a liberal, non Catholic environment there are plenty of options available. Don't you think conservative and Midwest pretty much go hand in hand? I for one see that as a good thing!

PrincessND

wait a minute claremarie? So have you ever even gone to Notre Dame? If not...you've just discredited all of your arguments. Your opinions are nothing more than perceptions that aren't substantiated with any solid experiences...I'm actually quite proud that you're not a student.

PrincessND

Cincinatti:
If Catholic and conservative equal intolerant and unwelcoming to certain groups of people, I doubt that does justice to the Catholic teachings that Notre Dame is all about. Do Catholic and conservative lead to intolerance? I'm not exactly sure, but this is the rap that Notre Dame has gotten for quite a while, so I'm guessing probably somewhat. I actually thought ND had come a long way with Malloy as president and I think they're backtracking somewhat in their progressivism since Jenkins became president.

Another thing, is this whole idea that one does not have to change what is found to be less than ideal...how do you think injustice was historically eradicated in the past? People went against the status quo; yes some were upset, but in the end you have to do what's right.

claremarie

PrincessND,
I'm still waiting for someone to substantiate the assertion that ND lacks diversity because, among other things, the student body is overwhelmingly conservative. So far, I've read nothing but vague generalizations, with not a single concrete example to support them.

"I actually thought ND had come a long way with Malloy as president and I think they're backtracking somewhat in their progressivism since Jenkins became president."

You are very nicely illustrating my point. A Notre Dame grad who is anything but conservative. Evidently, if the students posting here are representative, you were not alone.

Tigers Rule

What other schools are you considering? The importance of visiting and spending time on campus absolutely can't be stressed enough.

irish_hopeful

All this talk of minorities and diversity movements has me hoping the the irrational static analysis predicting an end to white majority by 2050 actually comes to fruition.

That way I can be a minority and someone can promote my own special interest.

In seriousness?

As globalization accelerates faster and faster, understanding the world and her diverse population of citizens is crucial to leading a successful professional life. People accuse Notre Dame of ignoring this fact and trying to remain an old-fashioned, good-old-boys society.

I very much disagree. And I do so from a Catholic perspective. There are 1 billion Catholics in the world across every planet and in virtually every country. Very few religious denominations can claim such catholicity, in the literal sense of the word. The Catholic tradition holds that, despite its mixed track record in practicing what it preaches, all human beings have dignity and that all human life has value. We're taught that love for neighbor comes from love for God and love of his creation.

Being a Catholic school, Notre Dame instructs her students in the same tradition. People are not a means to an end - something our sinfulness causes us to forget. The marginalized members of society deserve our respect, love, and charity - whether its the underprivileged South Bend kids Notre Dame students tutor or the poor or homeless individuals to which ND students give assistance and funds. In the Catholic tradition, Notre Dame students are dedicated to justice, peace, and human freedom.

Perhaps Notre Dame does not fulfill arbitrary racial or demographic quotas to which every other top-20 university aspires. But she practices what she preaches - and doesn't pander to conventional wisdom in the process. Understanding that the world is diverse really doesn't cut it. Understanding that the diverse-est parts of the world are the ones in most need of our gifts and talents does.

wowser147

Hmm
I'm a freshman at ND and I'm an Asian international student. The major draw for me was ND's catholic identity (being Catholic myself). After I got in, I had to make a decision on where I wanted to go. To be honest, I was kind of worried about ND's lack of diversity. I wasn't looking for a minority niche that I could fit into, but rather was thinking, 'are there enough minorities to make me feel comfortable going here?'

I've visited most of the schools I've gotten accepted to. When I arrived on ND's campus, I just knew immediately that this is the place I want to spend the next 4 years of my life. My friends who had been in college at the time had been telling me that people can usually tell where they fit in the moment they step onto a campus. Everyone knows that ND lacks diversity, but it wasn't and still isn't a big problem for me.

Am I the only minority in a few small seminar classes I've taken? sure, but that doesn't stop me from getting to know my classmates and doing well in class. All of my close friends (people in my dorm section, roommate, next year roommate) whom I call my family and always hang out from when I'm done with classes until 2AM (watching reality shows or playing Halo ) are white (or mostly).

Just like in life, it's what you make out of it. If you know that you love it and that you're going to try your best to fit in, you will. If not, you won't. Simple. As someone said earlier, you have to be willing to take everything that ND has to offer.

Yes, I do live in an ND Bubble, but I feel like that actually helps bring the whole campus together as a community. (the glass half-full attitude)

I personally enjoy every single second at ND thanks to great friends, great activities, challenging course load (don't judge me if you're smart enough to get in here it means you enjoy challenging classes, too), etc.

Of course I'm biased, but the bottom line is, If you look for negative aspects of a college, all you'll see is the negative aspects of that college. However, If you look for positive aspects and reasons to go, you'll discover them.

Look for reasons to go to a school, not reasons NOT to go. You'll have more fun that way

P.S. congrats BTW, on being able to CHOOSE which college you want to go. It's a great privilege.

griffon

wowser...i agree with your post

but while notre dame does lack racial diversity i would definately not say that it lacks political diversity...like many well-respected and prestigious universities it holds many different political viewpoints...many of the professors do teach from a more liberal and more open-minded viewpoint. while yes the official catholicness of the University does tend to lean a little more to the right, there is a pretty well balanced public opinion