sanjenferrer

I'm not sure how respectful the administration is of differences though. I know a student (from a different university-- Northwestern) who was banned on campus for attempting to speak to ND students about their school's policy on some LGBT issues.

http://www.windycitytimes.com/gay/le....php?AID=15246

"This spring, she participated in the second annual Soulforce Equality Ride, a two-month long tour of Christian colleges and universities with policies that prevent students from coming out as LGBT. As a rider, she co-organized the West Bus’ first stop to the University of Notre Dame, where she and nine others were given lifetime trespassing notices for attempting to speak with students on campus."

claremarie

"Most Catholics hold similar views. True. Most Catholics believe that abortion is wrong, stem-cell research is bad, and gay marriage should not be allowed under any circumstances. Now I'm not going to debate whether those are right or wrong, but Most (not all, MOST) Catholics probably fall under those lines."

This statement is shockingly ignorant. Take a few moments to peruse the wealth of information at this website http://pewforum.org/ and you will learn that many Catholics support abortion, same-sex marriage, and stem cell research. In fact, the views of Catholics on this issue are pretty much the same as the views of Americans in general. That is a fact, and to claim the contrary reveals either extreme ignorance, extreme prejudice, or both.

vc08

Claremarie:You're an obsessive, ignorant parent. I really don't trust your opinion, and therefore your ranting on how "liberal" ND is means pretty much nothing to me. I'm sure you'll counter and say the same about me, in which I will respond that I really don't care what you think. Therefore, we have nothing else to say to each other.

No one is making headway in any direction, and it is therefore certainly not helping the OP. Let the conversation get back to its original intention, "negatives on ND". Because I'm sure there are some negatives besides their lack of diversity. Notre Dame is an amazing, awesome school, and you will take from it whatever you wish. Just like any university.


I've got a different possible negative that perhaps a STUDENT could touch on? ND is said to be fairly "isolated". The town of South Bend definitely isn't a "college town". Is there always plenty to do on campus? Does it ever feel too isolated? Thanks

Oh, and Happy Easter to all

PrincessND

VC, I am from socal too; where are you from exactly?

bpayne...you are know-it-all-ish. No disrespect intended, but you started at Notre Dame fairly recently. I graduated just last year, and had been there for 4 years, very active while I was there, and I knew several top university administrators (Fr. Jenkins, Provost and V/P Jacobs, and others) very well. I continue to be active as an alum. To assume that because you are currently a student that your opinions are more valuable than those of alums is ludicrous.

Finally, you have to GRADUATE from a school for it to be your alma mater. I have graduated, and can say, that I love Notre Dame. But I also recognize that it has some areas where it has room for major improvements. If I didn't love this school and want it to be the best, I wouldn't care about these things. It's okay to acknowledge areas where we think the place that we love can be better.

flyer08

Sorry vc08, but you haven't got a clue. Are you Catholic? Do you actually know any Catholics? Why can't you admit that you really had no basis for your ridiculous assertion that most Catholics have similar (and conservative) views on social and political issues? Claremarie is right on.

And PrincessND, you sound equally "know-it-all-ish," no disrespect intended of course. It's wonderful that you have met Fr. Hesburgh, Fr. Jenkins, and other "top university administrators," but so have many other students, and it really gives you no greater insights than anyone else. Your examples were very interesting, but basically they seemed to amount to "everyone didn't agree with my obviously superior and sophisticated opinions! This place is so conservative!"
Sometimes, when people complain about a lack of "diversity," what they really mean is "there aren't enough people who look/think like me."

ManUtd20Ole

Where is the manner.

napoleonspade

I sincerely hope all this bickering isn't reflective of what happens on campus. I mean it's just ridiculous. It's OKAY for a University to have negatives..It appears there are some posters who feel offended that their University could possibly have any negative aspects. Everything has to be put in perspective I believe. I figured most students had an agree to disagree attitude when it came to different perspectives..is this true or am I mistaken in believing this? I think it's alright for a healthy debate, but attacking other people is just ridiculous. Can any students shed any light as to the arguing environment on campus..is it even an issue?

maggiejeter

okay, some negatives (which some may see as positives, but these are just my opinions)
-same sex dorms.. makes it harder to make friends of the opposite sex, parietals are kinda ridiculous in my opinion, but i was aware of these things going in so i can't really complain.
-majority of people seem to be very wealthy.. this might make someone from a lower-income household feel uncomfortable
-on-campus social life.. seems like it's either a crowded dorm party or you have to go off campus, and taxis can get expensive if you go off campus every weekend
-distance, for me, is a negative, since i live about 10 hours from ND. if you're from far away, keep this in mind. i didn't really think about this before i came here, but now i really wish i had the opportunity to go home any weekend i wanted, and i didnt have to waste 2 whole days of my vacations traveling. again, travel can be very expensive if that's an issue.

PrincessND

Flyer,
I never said that I because of my experience my insights were more valuable. My intent was to rebuke the statement by bpayne that only current students' opinions mean anything on this topic by showing my dedication and longstanding service to my school.

Also, to the contrary, I do not believe that diversity=people who think like me. I do think, however, that if the Notre Dame student body was more diverse, I, and many other students with similar beliefs who feel the same way, wouldn't have felt so isolated. That said, no matter what your beliefs, I do find it unacceptable for anyone to justify racist, sexist, and homophobic language in any context; unfortunately, I came across such ignorance at times at Notre Dame, and I doubt that even you can say that you think these types of comments have a place at Notre Dame. It's one thing to have conservative beliefs, it's another to defend your beliefs with offensive and deragatory language. Take from that what you will.

Finally, when you're in the majority, it's very easy to come to the conclusion that people who "complain" about a lack of diversity are really thinking "there aren't enough people who look/think like me". Very easy to say something like that when your beliefs make you part of the crowd, and everyone does infact look and think you do.

PrincessND

Napoleon Spade,
I hope that there is still some level of debate on campus; what kind of college would you be going to without debate? In terms of arguing, I'm very passionate about my beliefs, as I would guess that many others are. For the most part, however, most Notre Dame students are pretty cordial.

Mombot

I can't take credit for this--it was something D. thought of earlier this year. She was adjusting to college and comparing notes with some HS friends at other schools and it occurred to her that having four years of your most productive time on this earth in terms of strength, health, cognitive ability just to study and learn is virtually unheard of for all but a tiny minority of people and only due to the relative wealth created by the industrial and post-industrial age. The whole IDEA of college is very new and in her word "artificial."

The idea of diversity in college is a bit strange, because to be there somebody has to be able to afford it. Even if a full ride is available, the family that may rely on that student's labor has to do without it for four years. I have not seen any college campus that is very diverse really--there are some, particularly on the coasts, that may have more ethnic diversity, but college campuses are overwhelmingly middle and upper-middle class. Secular colleges tend to be secular, and religious colleges tend to have an over-representation of the religion that is sponsoring the college.

I would not attack ND for a lack of diversity--that is a feature, not a bug, of college life.

learnmestuff

flyer: First post....bad first impression. Your face has clueless written all over it. Get a life, go fly a plane or something.


Look at what has erupted on this forum. Then look at debates on the Michigan, Berkeley, or Stanford forums. Pretty drastic difference in how diverse opinions are valued and interpreted. Don't base your decision on this forum, obviously, but it's worth considering. People who refuse to believe there school has any issues are "static." You can't improve as a university without owning up to your faults. Consider that, and whether you want a university that is continuously trying to improve, or one whose students refuse to admit the obvious. Good luck!

bpayne1

Catholics at Notre Dame is one thing, but stepping up to the "MOST" Catholics hold similar views assertion is not very critical thinking.

Yeah it is probably true that a bit more than half of all (American) Catholics believe that abortion is "wrong" but there is a smaller faction who believe all three things that you listed. (For example according the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life 49% of Catholics oppose gay marriage, which means that "MOST" Catholics can't possibly believe all three of the things you listed. Just for fun: 59% of white non-Hispanic Catholics support stem cell research; and the kicker: 51% of white Catholics support legalized abortion. By no means are white Catholics representative of all Catholics, but if Notre Dame is a predominantly white Catholic institution, then maybe those numbers mean something huh?) And I'll save anyone the time and actually put the source: http://pewforum.org/surveys/campaign08/
Hell look at Martin Sheen who will receive the highest honor given to American Catholics at Notre Dame. He doesn't oppose gay marriage and would never tell a woman what to do with her body. But hey, Notre Dame is so conservative it would never allow that. Right.

It's cool that you have been to many countries (I really meant go talk to some Catholics, any Catholics, anywhere, heck an Episcopalian might even suffice), I have to admit that no I haven't been to any other than Mexico. My parents and I spend our time working to pay tuition, but next to time you do something let me know, I'd like to visit some very, very religious countries because God knows that America no longer is.

And I'll be the first to admit that some, let's say 'close-minded,' Domers **** me off sometimes, but don't anyone make false claims about my Church.

Tyler09

well, for minority students, the lack of non-athlete minority students could be a bug in college life. (once you factor out athletes probably only 2% of Notre Dame are black STUDENTS)

bpayne1

Everyone is a student. Some happen to be athletes too. But don't think that athletes aren't students as well.

Even if you take out athletes about 3% of the student body is African-American (remember African-American only represented in football, basketball, and track, there is one African-American on the men's lacrosse team. Not that 3 is much more than 2 but you are taking about 80 people or so.