Dark Horse 90--Excellent Post!! I have refrained from commenting on this thread, but have to agree with Dark Horse. Yes, one can say that ND has a legacy rep BUT--each year admissions forms classes based on many things. As Dark Horse stated, there is no mathematical formula and the composition from year to year for classes probably varies widely. It is very important for all prospective students to remember NOT to pin hopes on one school, as difficult as that may be. You should have 3 or 4 dream schools and of course matches and safeties. You should be comfortable attending ANY of the schools you apply to. This has, once again, been a brutal year for admissions across the board, not just ND. And, keep in mind, that rejection at your dream school is but one of life's many disappointments ahead of you. Try to begin now remaining open and positive about what your future holds. Good Luck to all of you!
I know they treat legacies differently, but one girl who got a 1800 on her SATs doesn't add much to this conversation. Knowing what the acceptance rate of legacies is and what the acceptance rate of non-legacies, as well as average stats for the two groups, is all that needs to show how much of a preference they get.
Yes, we legacy applicants received a letter saying that they aimed to accept 50% of the legacy applicants and that they hoped the class of 2012 would be 25% sons/daughters of alums.
Having a parent who works in the ivy league admissions process and who receives much criticism for being "too lenient" with legacy apps, I asked him the same thing; do legacy applicants deserve the slight edge? He responded that the legacy students on average have a higher gpa than non-legacy students which shows that the criticism IN MOST CASES can be very unfair. Pointing fingers at legacy admits saying that someone else deserved their admit is unfair because, who's to say they wouldn't have been admitted without their legacy status? Say a legacy doesn't have the highest stats, which can be true, who's to say that other facets of their app didn't get them in, like we see in so many cases? A great essay or other subjective aspects can nullify low stats.
Moral of the story, apple doesn't fall far from the tree?
I don't think that ND upped the intake of legacies this year. If I remember correctly, the legacy letter 5 years ago also mentioned that ND aimed to accept about 50%. A rejection letter followed in April. Last year the legacy letter definitely stated that ND aimed to admit the 50%. Ouch! Another rejection letter.
I don't think it's fair to criticize CTcutie for getting in. While her SAT scores may seem low for the ND average, she sounds like she's got an amazing family who's dedicated to community service and social justice, which is directly in line with Notre Dame's mission and Catholic social teaching. I mean, this girl started her own foundation, and did a ton of community service. In addition, her family donated a ton of money to Notre Dame so that less fortunate kids could get a chance to attend. So she's not good at taking tests? She shines so brightly in other areas, that the admissions people thought she deserved to attend. In addition, maintaining a relationship with her family probably benefits other students for years to come as they will continue to donate money.
Finally, it is wrong to assume that because you have higher SAT or ACT scores than someone else that you are more qualified than they are. Sitting for 5 hours (or how ever long that test is now-a-days) doesn't say much about your intelligence, or your character for that matter. As most people know, the SAT in particular is far from an equalizer, as certain groups of students (particularly minority students and students from poorer backgrounds) traditionally do worse on it. In addition, several studies have shown that the SAT doesn't predict one's success in college. If you ask me, they should be thrown out! I do agree with many who say that ND gives WAYYY too much attention to SAT scores.
I'm sad that Notre Dame had to reject so many well-qualified, amazing-sounding people, but that is the nature of the beast. It helps no one to attack those who got in.
Girl with SAT scores below 1980 RIGHTFULLY got into Harvard Yale and Stanford because of an amazing life story. Unlike the title of the thread, it's not a miracle. She deserved it.
Her story if you don't want to go through the whole thread:
"Both my sister and I were raised in the Westboro Baptist Church. For those of you who are not familiar, this is the church that protests outside of Iraq War veterans' funerals, organize demonsrtations that claim that God Hates America, and makes posters and yells at passerbys that "God Hates Fags!" The church is quite infamous in America for vehemently arguing that God hates America with a passion, that he hates our veterans, and that he hates gay people. Our parents indoctrinated us with this b.s. and would make us make posters and stand outside and "protest" and "demonstrate." We would be forced to say extremely hateful things about gay people and America in general. My sister eventually came to realize, on her own terms, that this was immoral and disgusting. She ran away from home. She tried to go to our aunt's house in California, but she wouldn't take her. So she illegally traveled in train boxcars for 4 months (she missed some H.S. and had to repeat a grade), until our aunt in Cali finally took her in. This was what her essay was about."
C'mon now, though not this extreme, people have stories that show their character. Don't judge just by objective stats.
I was trying to avoid any negative feelings toward my acceptance by saying I had a "source." The "source" is myself. I am a legacy... and I am so grateful for my fortunate bloodline. I can't help feeling guilty for having been admitted over those who I know are more qualified than I am. I know that so many people that love ND as much as I do were rejected. I have not looked into whether or not they achieved their goal of admitting 50% of legacies, but I know for a fact that the letter stated that they "hoped to admit at least half of all legacies applying." (I will quote this more accurately when I get home.) But they also stated that they would not lower their standards to meet this goal, meaning they weren't going to take a C-student with no extracurriculars and a horrible essay just because his or her dad went to school there.
I hope no one has any negative outlook on me because of my acceptance. I can't state definitively that I was accepted because of my father, and it does weigh on me a bit that that could be the biggest reason, but I also have a full-ride scholarship through the U.S. Navy.
Don't you for one second doubt the reaon why you were accepted at Notre Dame! You applied - Notre Dame decided that they wanted you - and you were accepted. You do not need to justify or prove your acceptance to anyone! You deserve to be in the Class of 2012 just like all of the other accepted students deserve to be in it - do not let the negative people on this board make you question your talents and reasons for being accepted at Notre Dame. I am sorry that this legacy discussion made you feel this way - just continue to be happy with your accomplishments and your acceptance and shame on anyone who tries to make you feel differently.
Congratulations on your acceptance - you honestly deserve it!
As I learned from an earlier post somewhere, the ND admissions office (and most admissions offices) are "forming a class." So, let's imagine what that takes. (1) Since this is a co-ed school, we'll need close to 50-50 males and females, (2) We need to keep our athletics strong because it is the epicenter of our school's sports spirit, so we'll need more athletes in XX sports (football?) because we've been weak there before, and we need a stronger quarterback, (3) Since ND is not a public school, not funded by federal funds, we need to keep our family/community tradition and spirit, and be able to continue to afford providing financial aid to qualified students who need financial assistance, so, we'll need qualified legacies whose parents have generously donated to the university, (4) We'll need a lot of academic scholars, to keep the standards high and inspire other students to greater heights, so, let's bring them in and offer scholarships to the best-of-the-best because we have to compete against other top schools for them, (5) We'll need some people with leadership and initiative who can generate other school activities to keep our students engaged and give them choices, since there is not much to do in South Bend; so, let's bring in the qualified "activity initiators and the passionate service-oriented students", (6) since ND is viewed as homogenous by most outsiders, and our society has become diverse/complex and the economy has become globalized, we need somequalified internationals and URMs who can expand the experience of our student body beyond their limited upbringing in their hometown and make them men or women of the world, (7) As a university that believes in helping "the least of our brethren", let's find some very poor qualified students who would not otherwise get a shot in life unless they are given these opportunities, and we can fund those with legacy donations (8) and finally, let's bring in a couple of people like DarkHorse90, so people will say - "What the HECK? How did that son of a donkey get in?" , just to remind people that "God truly works in mysterious ways" and that life is not a predictable state. So, looking back, at any of those decision points, anyone of us could have been cut. "Too many males, let's cut out DarkHorse90..wait, no, we need him for category 8." But they still have to pick "qualified" students, qualified means those who can do the level of academic work at Notre Dame. And the number of qualified students who applied to Notre Dame (or other schools) will far exceed the available seats. If they brought in ALL scholars or ALL who got SATs over 1500, no athletes-no legacy-no student leaders-no musicians, this would no longer be NOTRE DAME that we all seem to love. And who among us would even want to apply here?
Last edited by DarkHorse90; 04-04-2008 at 02:46 PM.