mcknight

My son was accepted as a ND scholar last month. It was truly one of the happiest days of my life as I had always hoped he could attend ND someday. It's always been his first choice and that was confirmed when he visited the campus last year. I scanned the acceptance letter and proudly emailed it all of my friends and family, including four who are ND alums.
Our dilemma now is that it is going to cost us 45k per year. We were hoping that he would receive much more aid than the 5k he was awarded, as we can't afford to spend 180k+ over four years. We are a two income, middle class family with a daughter who will start college in 2010.
My son has received a full tuition scholarship(36.5k+/year) to Washington and Lee University in Lexington, VA. I know that W&L isn't ND, but it's still an excellent, highly rated school. He can attend W&L for about 10K/year versus 45k/year at ND. We're struggling with this as his decision is coming down to the wire. If $$ was no object, ND hands down would be our choice.
If only ND had implemented the program that Harvard announced a few months back (Harvard announces sweeping middle-income initiative — The Harvard University Gazette) it would be a no brainer decision for us.
I called the admissions office and their reply was that "unless something has changed in your family circumstances, there's nothing we can do further for you other than the 5k/year he's been awarded."
I'm sure ND is experiencing the same problem that Harvard had; they aren't getting many students from middle income families. The smart poor students and the smart rich students were well represented in their admitted population, but not the smart middle income students.
Any advice would be appreciated as we try to work this out. Thanks.

claremarie

Only a handful of universities can afford to offer "need"-based financial aid to families with incomes approaching $200K per year, as Harvard's new policy does. Harvard has an endowment of nearly $35 billion, or nearly six times the Notre Dame endowment. And Harvard's decision was triggered, in substantial part, by increasing congressional scrutiny of what it regards as miserly spending from sizable university endowments.

My guess is that so long as Notre Dame continues to attract plenty of well-qualified applicants who are willing to pay full price (or close to full-price), the University will have no reason to consider awarding the sort of merit scholarship that your son received at Washington and Lee.

Ultimately, you'll have to decide whether Notre Dame is worth the $140K extra it will cost. If you have to borrow to meet those costs, that would be a hefty loan hanging over your son's head when he graduates, and would all but rule out any expensive professional school in the future. On the other hand, Notre Dame is a very special place, and many families are willing to make enormous sacrifices to make it possible for their children to attend. Any possibility of getting an ROTC scholarship next year? And when your daughter is also in college, you may find that your expected family contribution is greatly reduced, giving you more financial aid from ND.

Greta

Congratulations on two fine acceptances. It sounds like your son received a nice financial package from Washington & Lee that probably includes a hefty merit scholarship. In my experience Notre Dame is very upfront in explaining on their website and during admission sessions that all their aid is need based, and not merit based. It is unfortunate that perhaps you expected a merit package from Notre Dame, but they seem pretty consistent in their message that ND aid is need based only. Time will tell if Notre Dame is able to redefine need to include more middle income families but in the meantime, I have no advice. Sorry. No crystal ball. Only you can tell if the aid offered will truly not work for your family. Good luck and best wishes to your son.

Greta

Well, I guess I could add our experience: When my son turned down better financial aid packages to instead attend ND, he did so with our concurrence and blessing. It is a not a decision we have regretted, even as we write those tuition checks, lol. Our son has thanked us numerous times for what he considers to be the gift of attending Notre Dame. ND offers an extraordinary experience, in our opinion. But spending more to attend ND was a choice we made as a family. Not everyone can or will make that same choice.

4mom4

Our situation was somewhat reversed. My son applied to Washington and Lee and ND. We are West Coasters and didn't have the money to go all over the country to look at colleges so my son set his priorities by looking at the information he had to hand. He was accepted to both universities but was not offered enough at Washington and Lee for us to be able to send him We had pretty much settled on a nice LAC with substantial merit aid when ND's offer came in. On paper, Washington and Lee was my son's first choice for a variety of reasons and if he had received a full tuition scholarship I'm sure it would have been a done deal. He's at ND now and I think it's a great fit. He's very happy. However, Washington and Lee is a superlative school and with the money they're offering, I would say that you really need to think hard before you turn that down. ND and Washington and Lee are two amazing schools, each with a wonderful history, a beautiful campus and a very supportive administration. They both have top professor ratings. Good luck with your decision.

mcknight

After much thought and deliberation, our son has decided to attend Washington and Lee. The full tuition merit scholarship afforded him the opportunity to graduate debt free and was a major component in his decision.Turning down the opportunity to attend ND was a VERY difficult decision and he's planning to look at ND again in four years for grad. school. He has three hs classmates from his 150 student senior class who were also accepted at ND and you can imagine the peer pressure he received from them to attend. Hopefully he'll eventually get to be a Domer. Thank you very much to everyone who responded.

Mombot

My guess is that because of their commitment to social justice, etc. they will never match the Stanford/Harvard offers to families who have resources. If you look at it from a commitment to social justice, if you give two kids a partial ride whose parents could if forced to scratch around and borrow, or if not could send their kid to a state U. vs. one kid whose parent(s) have no means whatsoever to borrow and so the kid's choice is ND or no education...What is the most socially responsible choice? One results in three college graduates, the other results in two. One does not change the course of events at all--the two middle class families will by hook or crook get their kid through college, the other may lift an entire family into a different way of thinking.

To me those Harvard/Stanford offers are a complete waste of resources and a bunch of posturing to attract even more applications from smart middle class kids, which will drive up their numbers and drive down yields and add to their brand mystique.

kevdude

I work in the Development Office here on campus, and I can tell you it is one of ND's long term goals to enact the same middle-income aid initiative as at schools like Harvard and such. But, keep in mind, Harvard's endowment is exponentially larger than NDs. We have, as of January 2007, a $6.5 billion endowment, whereas Harvard's is $34 billion. Now, we are still #12 in the country in endowment, which is awesome, because that does truly help with financial aid, but one cannot honestly expect ND to be able to do the same as Harvard with 1/6th of its endowment. Hopefully in the future, though!

AynRand=Lame

My worry is this: my parents have saved up about 50,000 dollars since I was a fetus to pay for college. Obviously this gets me one year, so no school offered me any need-based aid. I'm using all my money to pay for freshman year and hoping ND will give me need-based aid afterwards...because otherwise I am going to be reaaaaaaally screwed. As a member of the middle class...this is why I'm hoping ND will get somewhat on the Harvard bandwagon.

kevdude

Two points of contention arise, however, when you factor in the fact that it's only roughly 1,200 students, not (presumably) the majority of the student body (and if it is, UChicago is much smaller than ND), and that it has the benefit of a $100 million, that is probably specifically endowed to such a financial aid program.

The difference lies in that Harvard is close to achieving a large enough endowment wherein tuition would be, for all intents and purposes, $0. Their middle-income aid initiative is not directed at 1,200 students, but instead aims to extend nearly universally, and systematically, without the help of an anonymous donor directing an exorbitant fund directly to such an initiative.

claremarie

The Chicago program is open to low and "moderate" income students. Harvard's tuition break will be extended to students from families earning as much as $180K. That is a huge difference.

BPKO43

Its hard to say what a cut off is for middle class because you have to take into account so many factors and frankly 100,000 is not that much anymore esp after taxes and other ridiculous expenses or other children in school. Classically, the middle class often gets shafted...the extreme rich don't have to worry about $ for tuition for the most part, whereas the poor or lower class or however you like to call it have perhaps more aid opportunities, including state and federal aid, if they can be sought out. But there really can be no arbitrary cut-off; thats why college board and fafsa require us to do those ridiculously involved forms every year.

BPKO43

meaning absolutely nothing in real life...ND costs 50K a year and no one making 100K or just about any other amount can simply afford to drop half their income on any expense. If you make 50K you are in the top half of the wealthiest country in the world, and almost any university tuition is going to cost more than half of that. 100K a lot...yes standing alone, but after crunching the numbers it is not exactly living the life of luxury.

BPKO43

Relevance.....most of the people in the world are not going to college so lets not compare on that wide of a scale. And I never said 100K means nothing in real life. And what are you talking about over-consuming? I personally come from a family that lives without many of the luxuries that those who make less often have, because my parents have elected to pay for their children's education. Over-consuming? I think not. I elected to go to ND over my state school because it will cost me 12K less out of pocket this year alone. Over half the people at ND are on financial aid because they can't afford the sticker price, and a substantial portion of them come from families making 100K

KSAzN

i agree. my parents don't make over 100K, but because they sacrificed for years beforehand and invested well, we have to pay sticker price @ ND. we don't have the 2nd homes, the boats, or even a fancy house because my parents made smart investment decisions w/ the money instead of spending it on themselves. and no, my parents do work hard for their money, they have 70-80 hr work weeks, and almost no vacation time. it would mean a lot to families like ourselves if ND would be able to help us out a little and give us something.