andy_g

help me pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. i cant decide. i kinda heart penn. am i crazy to choose it over stanford or do people ever chose penn (NOT wharton, college) over HYPS?? not that i care too much about prestige, that wont be a deciding factor at all and im probably going to choose penn, but i just wanna know if people ever do that.

Chi-town23_33

andy_g, as you guessed, most people that choose Penn over HYPS are Wharton students, but there are students that choose Arts & Sciences at Penn over those four as well, they are just much less common.

In my opinion, if you feel Penn is where you want to be, then go to Penn. When talking about these schools, the differences in academic strength are negligible for undergraduates. Really, the only thing you will lose is the more prestigious name. However, when it comes to career prospects or additional study after your four undergraduate years, the people who read your resume/application will know Penn and its reputation. Do what you feel is right, as you really can't go wrong either way.

midatlmom

I think that there are numerous reasons to choose non-Wharton Penn over Stanford and I'm sure that it's not an uncommon choice. For example, you might prefer being on the East Coast to the West Coast, prefer an urban campus to a suburban campus, prefer a compact campus over one that's fairly spread out and you might prefer the four-season weather of Philly to weather that's good, but more similar over the course of a year.

Also, in terms of academics there are many departments at Penn that are equal to or better than Stanford-for example, according to the Gourman report, Penn is better at linguistics, international relations, computer science, biochemistry, french (but Stanford is very close), anthropology, Chinese and environmental science and is close to Stanford in psychology and communications.

I honestly think that at both these schools, you can't go wrong and you should definitely go with your preference and not worry about what other people are doing or what other people would think.

datalook

First of all, I love Penn, because I live in Philly. And lots of my friends children are attending Penn. But I have to point out some facts.

Almost none of these is true. You 'll find out by just looking at the US-NEWS graduate school ranking: Best College Rankings, Best Graduate School Rankings, Best Hospitals, and Best Health Insurance Companies – US News Rankings

Gourman ranking is a BIG JOKE!!

Penn is better than Stanford in computer science? That is ridiculous. No other university on earth is better than Stanford in computer science. Period.

Stanford has 18 connections to Turing award (the 'Nobel' prize in computing) . Only Berkeley, CMU, and MIT have more than half of, or about half of that. Stanford has created YAHOO, GOOGLE, CISCO, H-P, and SUN. Stanford people have invented microprocessor, internet, 56K modem, computer mouse, multiprotocol internet router, DSL, google search engine, computer controled robot arm, computer controled robot cart, digital music synthesis, PASCAL, LISP, expert systems, and etc. The fundamental IT inventions churned out from Stanford far exceed any other place.

I'll repeat that again. No other university on earth is better than Stanford in computer science.

The best example to prove that Gourman ranking sucks is that Gourman ranking doesn't even rank Stanford's computer science program for undergraduate. Lots of other Gourman rankings are also laughable. Don't know how these rankings are created, perhaps are pulled out from the air?

funnyguy

Well, the disagreement over Penn's Comp-Sci department should make little difference in Andy-G's decision whether or not to go to the college...

midatlmom

datalook--I don't want to bog down this thread with a Gourman analysis. I know that you are aware of Gourman, because you and collegehelp had a very civil discussion about it on this thread
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...39-computer-sc
ience-undergrad-programs-2.html?highlight=gourman+computer+science

It's entirely possible that the Gourman ranking is not correct about Stanford computer science, but in general, my point is that Penn is an excellent choice for many reasons and that the OP should not be worried that he is making a mistake by picking it over Stanford.

ilovebagels

On the plus side, Penn invented ENIAC--the world's first computer, by most accounts.

Also remember that a university's amazing research superpowers do not necessarily translate into amazing undergraduate education.

Penn is a phenomenal undergraduate institution, particularly in fields relevant to andy_G's interest: International Relations. To consider picking Penn over any school a "mistake" is laughable.

Rudess

No, not period. And LISP was originally created at MIT, not Stanford, so if you're going to justify an absurd argument, at least get your facts straight.

timeloso

I, of course, recognize the great quality of the Department of Computer Science at Stanford. It is definitely one of the best in the world. However, I find your statements to be so ridiculous that they are stupid. In this sense, claiming that a particular institution or research group is responsible for works such as "microprocessors, internet, expert systems", etc. is a gory misrepresentation of how research works.

I could, of course, go one by one stating how Stanford has NOT been responsible for developing each of the elements you state (Tim Berners-Lee intervened heavily on the creation of W^3, Forgy at CMU developed the algorithms known as Rete for efficient inferencing, etc). However, I won't. It should be clear to anyone that most large-scale projects like "the internet", "multi-protocol routers", and so on, require the work of several different groups working together with standardization organizations.

What I will do, however, is share my opinion on how to rank a particular top university for undergrad in terms of academics: familiarize yourself with the programs and requirements of each in order to see what type of education you will be getting. Chances are your professor will be extremely qualified to teach your class, regardless of whether he invented the mouse or not. This is, of course, unless you are already at a grad-school level, in which case you wouldn't be stupid enough to rank a school based on the number of total popular inventions, but rather on the quality of the particular research team that matches your skills.

I certainly hope you're not a Stanford student; otherwise, this would make me lose some appreciation for the admissions department of what I currently think of as one of the best CS departments in the US, alongside with Berkeley, CMU and MIT.

Rudess

Very well said, timeloso.

datalook

1) microprocessor
Ted Hoff, the inventor of microprecessor, was a Stanford Ph.D. in electrical engineering.
To find out the birth of microprocessor, see
Marcian Ted Hoff
Inventor of the Week: Archive

2) Internet.
The Internet protocol TCP/IP was invented by Vinton Cerf, Bob Kahn, and Cerf's graduate students at Stanford. Cerf and Kahn are widely called the fathers of internet. Cerf was a Stanford graduate and a Stanford professor.


3) Expert system
Ed Feigenbaum was a long time Stanford professor in computer science. He is called the father of expert systems. Dendral, the first expert system, was developed at Stanford.
see
DENDRAL: a case study of the first expert system for scientific hypothesis formation
Edward Feigenbaum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What is wrong about that?
WWW is WWW. Internet is Internet. They are 2 different things. Before the inventions of 56K modem and DSL, WWW was nick-named "world wide wait".
The invention of 56K modem and DSL made internet access much faster than it used to be. Brent Townshend, a Stanford Ph.D, invented the 56k Modem. John Cioffi, a Stanford Ph.d and professor, played a vital role in the deveopment of DSL technology.
Here is an article about Brent Townshend:
Inventor of the Week: Archive.
Here is an article about John Cioffi: Pioneer of digital subscriber line wins prestigious fellowship

The multiplrotocol internet router was invented by Bill Yeager, a long time Stanford engineer. See an article about him: Router man - Network World

LISP was invented by John McCarthy. He is a long time Stanford professor in computer science. Yes, he also stayed at MIT, but only for about 1 or 2 years. When I say "No other university on earth is better than Stanford in computer science", you think it is absurd? Then tell me which university is better than Stanford in computer science.

45 Percenter

Andy, one major advantage of Penn is its "One University" policy, which strongly encourages all undergrads to take courses in more than one of the undergrad schools (College, Wharton, SEAS, and Nursing), and in most of the grad/professional schools (Law School, Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, Annenberg School for Communication, School of Design, School of Social Policy and Practice, Graduate School of Education, etc.), without the need for any special dispensation. It opens up the university to undergrads to an extent not found at any other school (including Stanford), and allows undergrads to pursue a program of diversity, breadth, and depth that goes far beyond the traditional liberal arts curriculum.

Just in case you're looking for additional justification to pick Penn.

pearlygate

why not go to Penn for undergrad so that when you apply for grad school you can go to Stanford (if admitted). Best of both worlds?

though I think you posted similar question at stanford forum a long time ago and no one bothered to reply (lol maybe I think that's because the answer is pretty obvious )

RejectedFromMIT

just go wherever you think you'll be happy and don't worry about academics, I'm a student at Penn, visited Stanford. I know for sure that the education you'll get at Stanford or Penn is almost the same. If you worked with the right professors, picked the right classes, etc then you won't go wrong. stop worrying about academics and go where you will have a better life

xjis

plain simple.

1) if you are an engineer- goto Stanford
2) if you are NOT an engineer - still goto Stanford

added bonus - extra 'wow' factor from strangers.