Financial Aid. BEWARE. - Page 10

hyakku · 08-14-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

By fitting the "stereotype," what do you mean? Are you referring to the "University of Spoiled Children" stereotype? And you feel that students who fit that stereotype should receive need-based financial aid? I know you have come on this board and insulted students (like my daughter) who DO receive need-based grants from USC - in what way do you feel you are more deserving than she?

Well alamemom, I think we know we can trust our admissions and financial aid counselors who feel both your daughter and I are more than worth the financial aid over...binks09.

Honestly mate, it's a terrible thing to hear about your father, and if you wish to appeal based on that grounds I have very little doubt it would be successful (I just got through with a second successful appeal after being unable to locate loans after this whole debacle, the office was very understanding and helped give me an amount that would make it far more doable to pay off my 1st semester working and with the little of my parents money so I can worry about loans second semester since it's become slightly more difficult), but if you have a 40,000 EFC and your house is worth one MILLION dollars, why wouldn't you go to the public school, not the private where you know that people that can afford to pay out of pocket must?

Enjoy westwood though, you'll get a good education there too and it should be much more affordable.

4orce · 08-14-2009, 10:41 AM

You are ignorant if you really think someone with a $40,000 EFC can actually afford to pay $40,000 each year for a college education. Its just not feasible. The calculation system is very flawed and as a result the middle class gets screwed the most.

Just because his house is worth 1 million doesn't tell the whole story. They could have bought it 10 years ago and it went up in value for all you know. Its not like they have 1 million in cash, its stuck in the value of the house.

alamemom · 08-14-2009, 11:01 AM

4orce, The EFC is always a shock - regardless of your income level. Families who find they have a $5,000 EFC and zero (or negative) home equity are at as much of a loss of how to come up with that amount as families who have an EFC of $40,000 and a million dollars of home equity. You will have to agree that though there is a process involved in getting a home equity loan, someone with one million dollars in home equity is more likely to be approved for a home equity loan than someone with no home equity.

Also, the definition of "middle class" varies based on personal perspective. I always considered my family to be middle class, but binks09 has called me "dirt poor," and implied that only richer students who fit "the stereotype" should be given USC grants.

binks09 has come on this thread to say that USC has treated him unfairly, and I feel it is important to point out that USC has granted binks09 $3,000 MORE grant aid than he qualifies for, and that other universities did not offer any. His family is facing a health crisis, but they are not at this time facing a financial crisis. USC assured him they would re-evaluate his need if a financial crisis ocurred in the future. As his father has now retired from a high-paying job, it seems that his family has prepared well for such a crisis and will weather it well in term of finance.

pandem · 08-14-2009, 11:15 AM

If your house is worth $1 million dollars, you aren't a typical middle class person. Upper middle class maybe.

alamemom · 08-14-2009, 02:16 PM

Earlier on this thread, Write posted a link to a FaceBook group claiming they were "screwed" by USC. Since then, besides Write receiving the aid she requested, the FaceBook group has renamed itself because the Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, L. Katharine Harrington, not only contacted the FaceBook group, she arranged a meeting with the group's administrators. She adressed their concerns and questions, acknowledged USC's slow responses, and provided contact information for those unable to resolve their problems. Here is the letter she sent to the FaceBook group's administrators after their meeting:

Quote:

Dear Merisenda, Adam and Jayson:

Thank you for meeting with Susan Ikerd and me about your concerns regarding Financial Aid. Our conversation will help us strengthen our Office of Financial Aid in ways that will better serve you and your fellow students.

As we discussed, financing a USC education is a partnership between the student, family and the university. Financial aid packages are based on the careful assessment each year of individual and family financial circumstances. These circumstances can (and do) change from year to year.

Financial Aid at USC

Before I address the specific concerns we discussed, I want to reiterate some of our discussion about USC’s financial aid budget and the need demonstrated by USC students.

· USC’s budget for financial aid (scholarships and grants) for the academic year 2008-09, not including money from alumni organizations and other “indirect” sources, was $160,233,313.

· For the 2009-10 academic year the budget is $174,291,849.

· This is an increase of 8.8%.

· Applications for financial aid from continuing students have increased more than 9%, from 5,923 in 2008-09 to 6,438 applications in 2009-10.

· Likewise, the number of continuing students receiving aid has increased 15%, from 5,066 students to 5,704 students.

· Total grants for continuing students increased from $72 million in 2008- 09 to $ 77 million in 2009-10.

We attribute the increased need to the current economic crisis that has impacted families across the country.

Changes in Financial Aid Packages This Year

We are committed to keeping financial aid as stable as possible during a student’s time at USC. This year the changes in financial aid packages for continuing students were due to the following:

1. Changes in family income or other circumstances affecting the ability to pay

2. USC’s increase of the summer earnings contribution

3. USC’s increase of maximum loan levels

The primary reasons for changes in financial aid packages are changes in family income or other circumstances that affect a family’s financial need. These additional circumstances include fewer children in college, fewer children living at home, etc.

The factors adjusted by USC were unchanged for over a decade. A comprehensive review of our guidelines indicated that they were out of alignment. Summer earnings were recalibrated based on current minimum wage. However, we recognize the importance of summer internships and attending summer school. Therefore, we encourage students holding internships, enrolled in summer school or unable to find employment to appeal for an adjustment to the summer earnings contribution.

Maximum loan levels included in financial aid packages were increased by $1,500. These “packaged” loans are federally subsidized and students are not required to borrow. For students attending USC for four years, the total amount of loans included in their financial aid package should amount to about $22,000. Note that loan amounts and summer earnings expectations are the same for new and continuing students, based on class level.

Service Issues

You have quite rightfully pointed out several serious service issues. Our document handling has been poor. It has been difficult to reach the Office of Financial Aid by phone. Information has sometimes been inconsistent. Appeals were not processed in a timely way. To each of you, and to every student and family that has been affected I apologize. Allow me to tell you what steps are being taken to improve our service in each of these areas.

Document processing for financial aid documents is moving out of the Office of Financial Aid to our document processing unit. Each year this unit processes over 75,000 admission applications and scans about two million pages of loose documents. Error rates are very low and the unit has been very successful in eliminating lost documents.

The student services area of the Office of Financial Aid is also being reorganized based on recommendations from a consulting firm with expertise in customer service. Within the next 3-6 months we will co-locate our admission and financial aid student services staff. In addition, we will add a dedicated customer relationship manager to oversee the newly configured unit. These steps and other components of the plan will allow us to focus more staff resources on telephone, email and in-person service at peak times throughout the year.

A Final Word

Thank you, again, for meeting with Susan Ikerd and me. Your willingness to share your perceptions and experiences will help us improve how we serve students and how we communicate about financial aid at USC. I hope you will post this on your Facebook site. And I invite you to refer anyone having unresolved problems with financial aid to me personally or to Susan Ikerd.

I look forward to future conversations.

Sincerely,

Katharine Harrington

L. Katharine Harrington
Dean of Admission and Financial Aid
University of Southern California
700 Childs Way, JHH 216
Los Angeles, California 90089
(213) 740-6753

afadean@usc.edu

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=133049514923
Sorry for this very long post, but I feel it is important to point out USC's responsiveness on this issue. It makes me very proud to be a member of the Trojan Family.

I also would like to mention that many, if not most, other private universities do NOT accept applications for financial aid from continuing students who did not apply as freshmen, and do not offer financial aid to transfer students at the same levels offered to those that enter as freshmen. USC accepts applications from any USC student, regardless of whether they applied as freshmen. Transfer students receive the same aid as 4-year attendees.

Fight On.

FauxNom · 08-14-2009, 10:46 PM

Thanks for posting that letter. I, too, think it's impressive that USC has been able to respond at all to the increased financial need of continuing students who did not apply for aid as incoming freshmen. Many colleges won't even consider those "new" applications, fearing that people hoping to be admitted would hide the fact that they hoped to get need-based aid in future years. I'm glad USC is able to do that.

I also want to say this: people will gripe about USC going out of its way to offer merit aid in order to attract top students, but that is a strategy that has worked amazingly well for the college. Rankings have gone up, undeniably. Excellent faculty stay or are attracted to USC because they like teaching top students, and they like working at a highly-esteemed university - who can blame them? In turn, the overall quality of the student body continues to go up. Guess what the end result is? A degree that is more valuable to every single student who graduates from the college, whether on a full-pay, partial-pay or no-pay basis.

I'm sorry for those students who have felt blind-sided by a sudden change in financial aid. USC clearly could have done better in terms of advance notice of the problem. But I give Dean Harrington and her group credit for making an effort to address the issues directly.

msheft · 08-15-2009, 12:20 AM

I noticed several posts say a home is worth a certain amount. There is a difference between the worth of a house and the home equity. A house can be worth $1 mil but if the owners owe $900,000 then the equity is only $100,000. Financial aid would be based on the $100,000 not on the $1 mil the house is worth. There is a big distinction between worth and equity.

alamemom · 08-15-2009, 12:48 AM

msheft: yes, that is how home equity is calculated. And yes, there is a distiction between worth and equity - and that distinction is fully recognized by financial aid offices.

binks09 has posted that his parents purchased the home over 30 years ago for under $300,000 and that it is now worth over one million. With a typical 30-year mortgage, the property may be fully paid off. If they have taken home equity loans over the past 30 years, then their equity would be less than one million, but only their equity would be considered in finacial aid calculations, not "worth."

Bear in mind that any expected contribution from home equity is in ADDITION to the FAFSA EFC, and that is the policy at most private universities - not just USC.

hyakku · 08-15-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

You are ignorant if you really think someone with a $40,000 EFC can actually afford to pay $40,000 each year for a college education. Its just not feasible. The calculation system is very flawed and as a result the middle class gets screwed the most.

Just because his house is worth 1 million doesn't tell the whole story. They could have bought it 10 years ago and it went up in value for all you know. Its not like they have 1 million in cash, its stuck in the value of the house.

Eh? I don't know his situation, nor did I claim he did, but if your EFC is 40,000, and the school is telling you if they think you can pay, you must pay, it probably isn't a good idea to go to that school hoping that they will change their mind, knowing that their financial aid comes out fairly late and after most deadlines to accept another school's offer.

Binks was a freshmen with an EFC of 40,000. Am I saying its fair? No, what I am saying however, is that he had that number in his possession far before he even received his aid package. Next year if his financial situation accurately reflects that massive drop which I don't doubt really occurred, than it is likely that his EFC will plummet and he will get more aid, but they are basing it off the year where his dad and mom were pulling in more than six figures, and correct me if I'm wrong have an equity of 1 mil on their house, not a value. To try to degrade our school, implying that our school is biased against "those that fit the SC stereotype" because your affluent is not only ignorant, but it shows a general lack of appreciation that you come from money, something many people desire.

Again, there are many amazing public options out there, and like I said, there are special circumstances appeals, however if your mom is still pulling in a bunch of money and you have money saved and assets (they use the CSS profile as well), I really don't see you getting much FA from SC binks, I would consider transferring to UCLA if necessary, but I would discuss this further with the FA office

merryecho · 08-16-2009, 06:30 PM

"but if you have a 40,000 EFC and your house is worth one MILLION dollars, why wouldn't you go to the public school, not the private where you know that people that can afford to pay out of pocket must."

So,if you make enough money to have an EFC of $40,000, you should go to public school, only if you are are broke can you afford to go to private school. Does anyone else see the irony here?

madbean · 08-16-2009, 07:46 PM

merry, the irony is indeed heavy. However, there is an expectation on the part of higher education that middle class families will be saving for college for years (not saying this is realistic with cost of living so high in many communities, unexpected medical crises, and other financial losses, but many do) so the burden is placed there. Where USC shines is that they make many generous merit scholarships available to high-achieving admits without regard to financial need.

drizzit · 08-17-2009, 10:40 AM

is a $40,000 EFC even middle class though? Maybe upper middle class. That has to be a number from an annual income of over $200,000 a year.

AMX · 08-17-2009, 12:11 PM

I believe he said his parents made ~$100,000. And no, you do not need an income of $200,000 for a $40,000 EFC.

alamemom · 08-17-2009, 01:39 PM

AMX, binks09 has come on this thread to rant because he is disappointed he was not able to attend USC because his parents very sensibly refused to pay the extra money for USC when binks09 had a wonderful opportunity to attend UCLA at a much lower cost. He was in no way "screwed" by USC.

Quote:

approximate 150k family

Extenuating Circumstances that aren't reflected by FAFSA

His $40,000 FAFSA EFC is appropriate for his family's $150,000/year income. (He is now vaguely saying "over $100,000." Yes, $150,000 is over $100,000... 50% over to be exact.) Home equity of approximately $1,000,000 as reported on the CSS/Profile would add as much as $60,000 to the FAFSA EFC, meaning at USC his expected contribution would be as much as $110,000. Despite that, based on his special circumstances, USC granted him $6,000/year - an OVERAWARD based on his financial circumstances. (The $3,000 he states is for 1/2 year as he is a Spring admit.) They also said they would re-evaluate his need when his father was no longer able to work. (His father was still working and earning full salary as he was negotiating financial aid.) No other university (he was accepted to several) gave binks09 any need-based aid - ONLY USC. I was one of the posters who responded to binks09 starting back in March, so I am familiar with his many conflicting posts regarding financial aid.

Middle Class?
The designation "middle class" very much depends on perspective, so is not a useful term. Our family falls into the income category several people on this thread have said gets "screwed" by financial aid - over $50,000, but (well) under $100,000. With careful planning over the several years prior to our oldest starting college and fully educating ourselves on how financial aid works so we knew what to expect, our daughter had several excellent options at prices we fully expected. Though binks09 calls my family "dirt poor," at USC we are contributing in the 5 figures each year - something we knew would be expected from us and for which we planned.

Fair?
I am not saying financial aid is "fair," or that it isn't a disappointment for these kids when they can't attend a "dream school" because of money. I am saying that binks09 has not been "screwed" by USC, that parents need to educate themselves on costs and financial aid BEFORE a child settles on a dream school, and then fully communicate the financial constraints to the child well in advance of May 1st.

Frustrated
I am frustrated with some parents who have come on this thread with vague statements about their child's unknown friends who cannot return to USC because of a "financial aid crisis." You have no idea the real circumstances - from the FAFSA and CSS/Profile, for example - and yet are accusing USC of underhanded acts. It seems nearly all the posters on this thread have had their financial aid concerns either explained or adjusted. Isn't it plausible that those unknown friends had similar circumstances? If you truly believe those students have been "screwed" by USC and have had their aid reduced arbitrarily and unfairly, please immediately have your child get in touch them and pass on the contact information in the letter in post #140 so they can resolve the problem. USC is anxious to do so.

Write · 08-17-2009, 03:24 PM

In our case, a mistake had been made, and I understand that mistakes happen. I am just happy it was taken care of. I never believed USC was being underhanded. I mainly wanted to understand what was going on. We filed two appeals which basically stated only the facts and asked them to look at the numbers again. I do feel like it was difficult to get someone's attention--but then I knew how busy the financial aid office was. I was feeling somewhat panicky while trying to be patient. I had cosigned an apartment lease, so if things did not work out, that would be another worry. But all is well here even though I do tend to worry a lot.

Wishing everyone the best.