hotasice

Okay, so I'm a little ticked off right now because I got rejected from the Liberal Arts Honors Program a couple days ago but accepted into Plan II Honors in late February.

Can anyone tell me why this happened? I mean, it's not like I WANTED to get into Liberal Arts Honors, since I got into Plan II, but I don't understand...I thought getting into Plan II Honors meant you were basically accepted into LAH as well.

theloneranger: you're the forum expert on UT here , can you give me a good breakdown on the similarities/differences between Plan II and LAH? Advantages/disadvantages of each progam? And maybe why this happened?

This is weird. I didn't expect to get into the higher program only to be rejected from the lower one--I'm slightly confused.

hotasice

OOPS sorry I found another thread that answered the "weirdness" of what happened.

But I would still like some helpful input on the similarities/differences and advantages/disadvantages of each program!

theloneranger

Admissions wise, I'm pretty sure LAH is more about grades and scores than Plan II, particularly in your liberal arts classes.

Plan II cares more about how well rounded you are as a person. Plus essays are 40% of the admission criteria.

Plan II is a major. You take a specific set of courses, many of which are Plan II specific. Of course, you also have to take the regular area requirements, some of which may not have Plan II sections.

LA Freshman Honors is not a major. It is honors sections of required courses, plus an hour seminar on critical thinking. The difference here is that you don't have to commit to an honors major, you can do any major or majors in the college of Liberal Arts and outside. After the first two years, it becomes honors courses in your chosen major (and Plan II Kids are elligible for this if they take another major).

LAH is larger and generally easier to get in to, so it's less prestigious. It's also less well known.

I don't know what LAH can offer that Plan II couldn't exceed unless you already have two very specific liberal arts majors in mind that you don't want to give up.

MidwestMom2Kids_

There are supposed to be 150 freshmen in Liberal Arts Honors. How many freshmen are they targetting for Plan II? I didn't know Liberal Arts Honors was larger. I thought they were about the same size.

theloneranger

Well okay yeah I remember that too. That means Plan II is a little larger actually.

But I think LAH's yield is much lower (I think I read 1 in 3 get accepted, and there is no way they have that low of a number of applicants).

hotasice

Thanks for the info, theloneranger.

MidwestMom2Kids_: Plan II admits 330 applicants out of 850-1100 total applicants and aim for 180 to matriculate.

As for LAH, I do not know.

Cofaloaf

If people who applied to LAH and Plan II posted their stats maybe we could see if there was a pattern in rejections or acceptances based on grades or tests scores (if that is indeed what LAH values more). Just a thought.

theloneranger

LAH probably admits 75% of Plan II acceptees, and I believe that at least 95% choose Plan II.

These stats are completely made up, but I doubt they are far from the truth.

UTSenior

Plan II wants people with 1400+ SATs who were in at least the top 10%, preferably top 5% of their HS class. I don't see how LAH could afford to be much more selective than that...

texas08

Plan II is a far superior program to the LAH. Its really that simple. Anyone who argues that LAH is better is clearly misinformed. Most of the LAH kids are the ones who were denied by Plan II and then accepted by LAH. I really can't think of one aspect where LAH has the upper-hand over Plan II. It has less (prestige and resources, its more grade driven, less known, and it has been labeled as the easiest Honors program to get into. The shear numbers of the student who get into Plan II also smash the notion that LAH is a better program. Plan II avg SAT score 1420, avg class rank Top 3% 78% are Nationally Merit recognized, I could go on and on and on.........

schismmanifesto

Ok Texas 08, I got into Plan II and I agree but theres no need to be arrogant...

PeglegGrad

Plan II has been in existence for over 70 years with a well-established (and well-earned) reputation for providing its students with a high quality liberal arts education. It is true that the students accepted by Plan II are high achievers. However, being rejected by Plan II and accepted by Liberal Arts Honors (in existence for 15 years) does not mean that there is any significant difference in the quality of the two sets of students. In fact, the clue is that Plan II heavily weights the required student essays.

Within these essays, the Plan II selection committee looks for a writing style that will identify students for acceptance as having a certain quality, (or ability to express that quality) that appeals to the Plan II selection committee. Thus, I know of high school students who were rejected by Plan II who were National Merit Scholars, also highly trained musicians, and who played sports at the state competition level and who were leaders of clubs in high school. However, they were accepted by UT's Liberal Arts Honors program. Plan II is very up front in saying that they have to reject many students, due to lack of space, and noting that these same students would have done quite well in the Plan II program of study.

Having spoken with representatives of the Liberal Arts Honors administration, I know that the freshman class entering in fall 2008 had an average SAT score of slightly below 1400 and ranked well within the top 6% of their high school graduating class. The 2008 Liberal Arts Honors entering class will have 147 students selected from 1,000 applicants. The academic background of these students equals or betters that of the most highly ranked universities, public or private, in the United States. Like Plan II students, the Liberal Arts Honors students also form a community of liberal arts scholars, in essence, an extremely high quality small liberal arts college with the resources of a large prestigious state university. I attended a Liberal Arts Honors history class as a guest, and found the professor to be highly skilled, innovative, and an excellent teacher.

I predict that in another few years the UT Liberal Arts Honors program will develop a more distinct identity, as well as immensely increased public awareness about the already high quality of its academic program.

MidwestMom2Kids_

The two programs are really quite different. They are both great, and there are terrific, smart students in each. (And yes, Plan II has students who can write absolutely fabulous Plan II Admissions essays.)

Plan II has a set curriculum. You have less flexibility than you would in Liberal Arts Honors, especially with respect to using your AP credits. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that for Plan II:

You need to take a full year of Plan II World Lit even if you have AP credit for English Lit.

You need to take a full year of Plan II Philosophy.

You need to take the full year of American History like everyone else but you also need to take a full year of history from a different location outside the U.S.

You need to take Plan II Concepts of Physics even if you have AP credit for physics, and you need to take Plan II Biology even if you have AP credit for bio.

I am not sure about the other requirements; the Plan II gov requirement looks like it is about the same as everyone else's.

Plan II has a very nice curriculum but Plan II is not everyone's cup of tea. If you want to be in honors classes but want more flexibility, you might consider applying to Liberal Arts Honors instead.

It is my understanding that most Plan II students double major. If you are in Liberal Arts Honors instead, you will lose the chance to say that you double-majored in Plan II in addition to your subject major, but (especially if you come in with AP credit) you will have fewer required classes to take and more flexibility for extra classes in your major or minor and for a full year of study abroad.

Liberal Arts Honors is not just a program made up of people who applied to Plan II and were rejected by Plan II.

I think there are about 130 first-year students in LAH this fall.

JuanEatsPandas

texas08, for someone who I take it is in Plan II and obviously very proud of it (which you should be), you should have a bit more humility. And you also spelled sheer wrong.

MidwestMom2Kids_

I think texas08 may just have been a troll, trying to stir people up. I just couldn't resist posting - wanted to add to PegLegGrad's post.