haftred

I have gotten into both the Echols Scholar Program at U.Va and Johns Hopkins University. I plan to major in either physics or chemistry, and I can afford both universities. From a purely academic standpoint, what should I consider when it comes to choosing between these universities?

amnesia

That's a tough choice. I would choose UVA simply because I like rural areas instead of urban areas.

Also, the campus at UVA is great.The engineering programs are both solid...

Someone from the school can add much more...

LBP

Haftred: Wow! To be accepted into both UVA and JHU is very impressive! May I ask, what were your stats? Are you in state (VA) or oos?
Best of luck to you!

cavalier302

In sciences, JHU is better. There's no real debate. In other areas, JHU is also quite good. However, UVA is very solid in many areas and is superior to JHU in several non-academic ways.

first: JHU is in a very, very bad area. Really, you should go visit, or read up on some of the incidents around campus. Besides that, it's just not particularly interesting.

second: To go along with my first point, social life here is absolutely superior. There is stuff to do all the time, great parties, hot girls, great campus, etc...

third: Cost. Why pay more when you don't have to? Come to UVA and give the difference to charity. Or buy a car. Whatever. The Echols program will give you a lot of freedom and prestige at UVA, while at JHU you'd be a regular student. Plus, most of JHU's prestige comes from its graduate programs, rather than its ugrad program.

LBP

If anyone is interested, you can look up the crime statistics on college campuses at the Office of Post Secondary Education, Campus Security Statistics website: http://ope.ed.gov/security/index.asp (I think this lends some good insight into a college's environment.)

Spicoli

That's a difficult choice to make. A friend of mine goes to JHU and is very happy. UVa is a fine school. Have you visited both schools?

From a purely academic standpoint, JHU is the choice. But keep in mind, your college experience is more than just academics.

cavalier302

"From a purely academic standpoint, JHU is the choice."

In the sciences, yes. In other things, no. And UVA isn't terrible in sciences by any means.

sv3a

The OP says he wants to major in physics/chemistry, so I guess the sciences aspect is important nonetheless. However, I would strongly encourage not to choose one over the other just because you think it has a better undergraduate program. Sure, there are probably more opportunities for chem undergrads at JHU (though being an Echols scholar nets you that extra edge to get opportunities at UVA), but what happens if you choose not to do chemistry? Or physics? Since you have two schools which are both good at pretty much all fields, you should look at other factors in your decision.

Spicoli

Hey Cav, could ya throttle down your bias a little. I didn't come close to implying that UVa was bad.

The original poster asked "from a purely academic standpoint, what should I consider when it comes to choosing between these universities?" The OP also plans to major in "physics or chemistry." Interjecting other criteria is an attempt to interject bias and influence.

UVa is a fine school. The grounds are beautiful. In fact, many campus' have been modeled after UVa. But when it comes to the sciences, and compared to JHU, UVa falls a little short. That's all.

When it comes to the scientific sector, there's no doubt Johns Hopkins carries more weight than UVa.

cavalier302

Of course I'm biased. But I also realize that many people read these threads, and there are certain things that I want to get across. Yes, JHU is a fine school. Yes, its physics and chemistry programs are probably superior to UVA's. But one shouldn't pick a school based on one program like that. There's a chance that the OP could end up majoring in classics, after all!

Globalist

Cavalier302 is right. Many of my pre-med friends didn't end up going into medicine by the time they graduated. Plus, so much of what's really cool about college is what happens outside of the classroom.

Yes, Johns Hopkins is an excellent school. You should visit both UVa and JHU, check out both schools' science programs, and try to stay overnight w/ a student if you can to get a sense of what student life is like. (You can do that at UVa with the Monroe Society.)
http://www.student.virginia.edu/~monroe/index.htm
http://www.student.virginia.edu/~monroe/experiences.htm

qx3kbenzene

I think you should look at the graduate rankings of JHU vs UVA in Chemistry and Physics. This is because as an undergrad, you will be exposed to graduate students (TAs) and professors in your chosen field who determine the quality of the graduate program.

Although you are only considering the undergrad program, from an academic point of view, it might be important that the research opportunities around you are vast and well funded. At a higher ranked school, this may be a stronger example.

Since I go to UVa, let me tell you in detail, its physics and chemistry programs.

I am a physics/chemistry double major, with a math minor. With Chemistry, you can either start with the 40 series (for premeds) or start the 80s series (Honors chem/for majors). The 80s introduce you to O-chem by the second semester of your first year and wrap it up by the first semester of your second year. There are several different specializations within the chemistry major: biochemisty, physics, education, etc. You can also get a distinguished major in chemistry. This requires that you write a research paper at the end and present it to a panel of professors.

It is extremely easy to get involved in research. Most of my friends, who have done well in a chemistry class, have walked up to the professor at the end of the semester, and asked to do research with them. I'm confident to say that 8/10 times, the professor will agree. If the professor disagrees, it's more of a lack of lab space than of a lack of confidence in your abilities.

Also, if you do extremely well in a class, you can also ask the professor to let you TA the class in the future. This is an amazing experience. You get paid and you learn so much more about the subject, all as an undergraduate. For example, I took the 80s series in chemistry and TAed O-chem last semester.

The Chemistry major is very structured and organized but you can certainly finish it in less than four years and do many many other things at the same time. I think this applies to anyone with enough dedication. If you plan to go to graduate school in chemistry, you'll almost end up somewhere amazing (in the top 5).

Here's the website for chemistry:

http://www.virginia.edu/chem/undergraduate/


For Physics, the BA is much easier to get than the BS which will take the entirety of four years with little room to do other things. The professors are absolutely amazing. They are available, approachable, and fairly laid back about due dates, extensions, etc. The TAs can be a bit annoying sometimes because they are not well prepared.

Research is also very easy to do. You would just have to do well in a class, get to know the professor, check out his research interests, and if there is a match, then be brave enough to approach them. You can also get a distinguished BA in physics, which requires a research project.

http://www.phys.virginia.edu/Educati...MajorBrochure/

Also, if you carefully read the major requirements in both fields, you'll see that as an Echols scholar, you are given exemption from a lot of unnecessary, but area requirement classes. This exemption allows you to have room for other interesting and relevant classes in the very beginning. What ever you decide to major in, you can pick a professor to advise you in that field.

That's what I can say about the two majors at UVa from a purely academic perspective.

------------------------------------------------
I don't know much about JHU except that the school is in Baltimore and that the medical school is in the top 2 for research.

However, I can tell you that Charlottesville is so much safer than Baltimore, since I have seen both. This may be important if you're working at the library until 1/2 in the morning and have to walk back to your dorm.

Baltimore is very intimidating because there is no transition between upper range middle class suburburia and literally, the ghetto; so you step from one into the other.

In Charlottesville, everyone is really nice. The drivers are lenient, the people seem less troubled by sensitive things like politics, racial tensions, socio-economic status, etc.

Spicoli

Sell it sister... You guys do make some excellent points.
Unless you really love LaCross, UVa's Div I sports is killer!

Choosing between UVa and JHU is a difficult choice. UVa is ranked 23rd, JHU is ranked 13th. How much difference is there between a top 15 and a top 25 school? Why didn't JHU make top 10? Why didn't UVa make top 20? How can you actually quantify that?

I kinda hate these rankings cause they really aren't very reflective of the actual college experience. In fact, these rankings are more important to the schools then they should be for a student evaluating a school to attend. Yet, people always put a lot of weight behind them when choosing a school. Bragging rights, I guess?

I have heard good things about UVa's research opps for undergrads, but I've heard the same about JHU.

That said, if you're looking for prestige in the sciences, having JHU as your undergrad will be better. Sure he can save some money at UVa now, but it might cost him in the long run.

Just my opinion.

cavalier302

"but it might cost him in the long run."


I guess. But remember, there are grads from schools like George Mason and ODU in all kinds of top PhD programs. If you're the real deal, you'll get where you deserve to go.

haftred

hmm I also got something called the college science scholars (CSS) program. Don't know if that should have any effect on the situation.