McDonell's victory and how it will impact UVA

WuTangForeva · 11-04-2009, 10:30 PM

So this backwards-looking guy is basically going to appoint (at some point) our board of visitors; I hear that he's going to try to place a downward pressure on the # of international students and OOS students as well ...

wahoomb · 11-04-2009, 10:32 PM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...this guy is going to single-handedly destroy UVA a.k.a bring us back to the 1960s. I wouldn't be surprised if he imposed a religion on us, poor TJ, he'll be rolling in his grave.

bird rock · 11-04-2009, 11:51 PM

^^Why do you say that? Has he done anything like that anywhere else?

jewels03 · 11-04-2009, 11:57 PM

By downward pressure do you mean he wants more out of state/international or less?

vienna man · 11-05-2009, 01:38 AM

He has publicy stated and in his campaign brochures that he is committed to expanding the number of places at Virginia colleges for in state students, so I would look for him to increase undergrad enrollment and cut down on out of state students through large increases in out of state tuition. The latter tuition increases should help the university to get through the current financial crisis. Hopefully, he tries to outdo Doug Wilder and freeze in-state tuition for a number of years to give in staters a well deserved respite in tuition increases.

*Dean J* · 11-05-2009, 07:20 AM

I did not see his brochures (we don't always get as much attention from republicans in the city of Charlottesville). Was UVa mentioned specifically?

Politicians push this agenda during every election cycle (the state reps are the most vocal about it). Unfortunately, the follow up required isn't attractive once they realize it. I believe the state would need to commit to increased funding (about 8% of UVa's budget comes from the state), tuition increases would affect all students, or class sizes would have to be increased to cover the gap.

Ronbo1960 · 11-05-2009, 09:56 AM

This is a very interesting question and perhaps being a native Virginian and a father of two about to go off to college maybe I can shed some light on why there is a "push" for more in state seats at all of the top tier state schools in Virginia. I want to stress I’m neither for or against changing the cap but here is what I hear when I talk to other parents in Virginia.

I’m sure everyone is well aware of the economic downturn and the impact the cost of getting an education. When you look at the cost of a good private school anywhere ($50K) and compare it to what in-state tuition costs at one of our top tier schools (18K VT Engineering and 21K UVA for anything) you can see why some Virginian’s are miffed. If my kid is good enough to get into a top private school like RPI for engineering why can't they get into UVA for engineering for 21K? On possible answer is because someone from OOS is in that seat at $43K. Of course there may be others (ECs not good enough, grades not good enough, not a first generation, etc.) but since the admissions process is cloaked in secrecy and there are no hard rules so to speak and you never really know for sure. I and others know many kids at the local high school that seemed qualified, got into great private schools, but did not get into UVA. So even if the in state tuition was raised to $30K it would still be a bargain at a fine school like UVA compared to any private college.

Secondly, most people I now think the OOS students return to the state they entered from and do not stay in Virginia to work following graduation, thereby not adding to the tax base that the state needs to fund the school going forward. I (and they) may be completely wrong in this assumption but I don’t know of any study concerning the statistics. Perhaps UVA needs to perform one to counter the argument.

I’m not out to “get those OOS”. I’m simply pointing out what the concern is to people who pay the majority of the bill at UVA whether they have a student at the school or not, that being the taxpayers of the state of Virginia.

Lastly, I’m sure Dean J (thanks for all of your excellent posts) will point out that by adjusting the cap the school will not be able to reach the goal of a diverse student body so important to getting the quality education that UVA provides. I realize that a goal of any school is to bring the best and brightest to the intuition along with a diverse student population. This would be lost if further restrictions were placed on OOS enrollment.

*Dean J* · 11-05-2009, 10:35 AM

First of all, I hope most people are aware that private schools are able to discount tuition (in the form of "merit scholarships) pretty regularly. The price tag you see for a private isn't always the one you wind up with even if you don't qualify for financial aid.

I was actually curious enough about the number of OOS students who remain in Virginia to work after graduation that I put in a call to the Alumni Association. When I hear back, I'll post what they tell me.

Quote:

I’m simply pointing out what the concern is to people who pay the majority of the bill at UVA

In light of the state only covering 8% of the budget at UVa, I don't think this makes sense. Are you saying the average person assumes UVa is wholly supported by taxes? I think most of us who pay taxes in Virginia are aware of the major recipients of our money...but I could be wrong.

Ronbo1960 · 11-05-2009, 10:57 AM

I would like to correct my statement regarding the "majority of the funding from taxpayers" in my previuos post. Dean J's comment was correct regarding the majority of funding for UVA not coming from the state. The majority funding comes from tution. The state contribution is about 12.9 % (excluding medical profit from the medical center). Which means about $156.4 million in funding this year, which is still a large sum. Yes, I think most people assume that the state is paying the majority of the cost. I'll be sure to point this out as wrong from now on.

Regarding funding at private schools. Yes some money is available but you can't count on it every year since the "pool of money" will fluctuate (as I'm sure you know Dean J) based on the volume of requsts for FINAID and the economy. I would much rather know I'm paying roughly 21K a year vice $30K the first year and who knows year 2,3, and 4. Plus what colleges call "aid" I call a low intrest loan. A recent WSJ report noted the following; "Today, two-thirds of college students borrow to pay for college, and their average debt load is $23,186 by the time they graduate, according to an analysis of the government's National Postsecondary Student Aid Study, conducted by financial-aid expert Mark Kantrowitz. Only a dozen years earlier, according to the study, 58% of students borrowed to pay for college, and the average amount borrowed was $13,172."

Thansk again for you input to the forum. Most of the admissions officers do not participate in these discussions.

sabaray · 11-05-2009, 11:05 AM

Ronbo, there's an interesting article from the NY Times that you may find of interest:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/01/ed...ic-t.html?_r=2

Explores the issues elite state flagships are facing.

*Dean J* · 11-05-2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

The majorituy funding comes from tution.

If memory serves, hospital patients are the biggest source of revenue for UVa. For the academic side of the house specifically, tuition and research grants are the two biggest sources of funding.

Budget Office: University of Virginia

12rmh18 · 11-05-2009, 11:23 AM

If tuition is one of the larger sources of revenue, doesn't UVA count on OOS student tuition? What is the percentage of in-state vs. OOS students at UVA?

Ronbo1960 · 11-05-2009, 11:31 AM

I believe it to be around 30% (Dean J?). That is why the state has balked at changing the ratio. The state would have to come up with the loss in revenue due to less OOS tution if they restriced the OOS students further.

Ronbo1960 · 11-05-2009, 11:57 AM

Thanks for the link Sabaray regarding the tough position our state schools are in with the downturn. Most state schools don't know what their funding will be year to year - year (just like students who get any financial aid). Some schools used to guarantee what the tuition would be all four years (Georgia Tech was one) but have since stopped doing that in part due to erratic funding from the state.

*Dean J* · 11-05-2009, 11:57 AM

We're 2/3 Virginian to 1/3 OOS

When the bills about changing the ration go through the state legislature, they fail in the appropriations area. You can monitor all bills on Richmond Sunlight and see how they wind their way through. It's pretty interesting. Here are the bills I followed during the last session, most of which were higher ed related. You see that most are listed as having failed in committee. That's referring to the appropriations committee.

Here's a W&M article about one of the bills. You'll see that the rep who introduced it referenced a student who had a "4.0 GPA" and was not admitted...but we all know that GPA could mean anything with the way GPAs are weighted these days.