How hard is it to graduate in 4 yrs at UW?

CalMom05 · 11-20-2009, 02:13 AM

My son was accepted to pre-engineering. Right now, UW Madison is his first choice school. We will have to pay OOS tuition and we will have 2 in college at the same time. Ugh! How hard is it to graduate with an engineering degree from UW in 4 yrs. He will have quite a few AP units, but I have heard that it sometimes is hard to get into the classes you need to graduate.

Mythreesons · 11-20-2009, 10:40 AM

I cannot speak to engineering, as my son is an economics major. However, he will have no problem graduating in 4 years. Sometimes class sign up gets a bit dicey, as the day he can sign up many of the classes he wants are filled. Also, Wisconsin fustratingly doesn't have a wait list. However, slots for classes open up the first fews days of the semester as kids change classes, and you can also go to professors for overrides. By the end of the first week of the semester, my son always had a set of classes he was pleased with.

barrons · 11-20-2009, 11:29 AM

Most OOS kids DO graduate in 4 years. Not a problem if you stick to one major.

CalMom05 · 11-20-2009, 11:56 AM

Thank you for your replies. That is very helpful to know because being able to graduate in 4 years is a huge consideration.

barrons · 11-20-2009, 03:49 PM

Most eng students do need at least one summer because of the tougher requirements and internships/co-ops. But the overall average for OOS is actually under 4 years as so many have all those credits on entry. If he has a semster's worth of credits or more he should be fine.
They are adding faculty to avoid the course bottenecks.

Chancellor announces first Madison Initiative awards (Nov. 6, 2009)

ChiDad · 11-20-2009, 04:16 PM

Having AP credits is a big plus when it comes time to register for second semester (and later). Registration goes in order of credits and those who are "ahead" have little trouble getting into the classes they want.

beastman · 11-21-2009, 12:23 AM

My son and I attended the info session at College of Engineering this summer and were clearly told to expect 4.5 to 5 years. In the booklet they gave us, Information for Prospective Students, there is a bar chart on p. 25 which shows that as of 2007-2008 only 26% of COE students finished in 8 semesters or fewer. 64% needed 9 or 10 and 10% needed 11 or more! In the sidebar, it reads "The vast majority of Engineering students require 9 - 10 semesters to complete their degree. This is because many students feel that doing well in their engineering coursework is more important than finishing one or two semesters sooner."

Right.

And no, this is NOT attributed to co-ops or internships.

As for your son's AP, please double check COE's acceptance of his specific credits for their specific requirements. Read the fine print to make sure he'll really be able to skip those classes. Hopefully he can whittle off a semester.

jnm123 · 11-21-2009, 08:08 AM

FYI---

One downside to having a bunch of AP hours for 2nd semester freshmen, is that those credits will categorize you as a sophomore, thus when enrolling, it blocks the student from signing up for 'freshman only' classes. This happened to my D last night.

She did EMail the professor & her advisor, and I trust the block will be lifted, but I'm staying out of it. In MY day, we just ran around like rats from table to table!

CalMom05 · 11-21-2009, 11:13 AM

There's a lot to think about. I'm sure many students admitted to UW have a lot of ap units but still need some introductory/freshman type classes to be admitted to thier major. We will have to see if we can get in touch with an academic advisor for the engineering department. We have to figure this out because the 5 year plan is definately not in our budget.

beastman · 11-22-2009, 08:11 AM

jnm123, thanks for that excellent point!

CalMom05, I definitely recommend that phone call. Another question to ask is the acceptance rate for your son's program of interest. As you probably know, you apply for entry into ME, BME etc as a sophomore and that acceptance is not guaranteed. I don't believe the large programs like ME have serious bottlenecks, but for BME they are currently accepting only about 1 of 3 kids who apply. The other two go another semester and try again. Not all prospective BMEs eventually make it. My son is a marginal UW candidate and I was very concerned about this additonal pressure, so we're looking at other schools with direct-entry and 4 year programs, such as Marquette and Iowa. Your son may well be a better student and if he's after one of the bigger programs may have no problem, but it's another of those fine-print things to be aware of. Our ultimate conclusion from this is that while UW's engineering program is well-regarded, there appear to be capacity issues.

As for the $$ part, you might look at co-oping, which will definitely add to his time in school but will pay him decent salaries of about $2500-$3000/mo to work full time for one or more semesters. And I believe this experience is now a resume must-have when job seeking.

CalMom05 · 11-22-2009, 10:56 AM

Thanks Beastman. Luckily, he intersted in EE or ME. When we speak with the advisor, we will ask if they expect any bottlenecks in those majors. Although he is a strong student, I am sure that most kids in pre-engineering at UW are strong students as well. Thanks for mentioning the co-op option. It would be great to get the work experience and the money.

JiffsMom · 11-22-2009, 01:43 PM

Also keep in mind the following issue... some of my daughter's classmates from high school attend UW and are running into problems with having earned a lot of AP credits (anywhere from 30 to 42 - our high school offers a very challenging curriculum; they graduate a lot of very high achievers). This locks them out of the freshmen only classes for spring semester as has already been mentioned, and they can't get into the busines school, engineering school, etc. classes that would normally be next in the course sequence for the degree they're interested in pursuing becaue they've not yet been admitted into those respective schools and the classes are already filled/closed with students already in those schools.

In other words, UW is not structured to support freshmen students entering with more than a semester's worth (more than 12-15) of AP credits. Those high achieving students are kind of stuck in "No Man's Land" after their 1st semester and before they're admitted to the UW school from which they wish to pursue their degree, pretty much wasting at least one semester at ~$17,500 per semester for an OOS student.

Make sure you're aware of this problem before any attendance decisions are made. Caveat emptor!

chriscollege · 11-22-2009, 01:47 PM

Beastman-Have you considered U of Illinois. They also have a direct admit engineering program and a good one at that.

barrons · 11-22-2009, 02:18 PM

Jiffsmom, that's an interesting and troubling issue. I will pursue this at the highest levels at UW. It should be an easy fix. My next on campus meeting is in the Spring so I can't do much until then except write the L&S dean.

AxeBack · 11-22-2009, 02:40 PM

@CalMom05:

I can speak for this issue here, as I'm a pre-engineering student who just started this fall. I have 15 AP credits that count for my engineering degree and let me tell you, its actually a bit harder if you're ahead of the other freshmen. Why? Well, next semester enrollment is based on your credit load, and if you have 15 AP credits + 15 first-semester credits, you're way ahead of the other pre-engineering freshmen and you get to enroll about 4-5 days earlier than them. The downside is that the classes you will be enrolling in are most likely advanced courses that sophomores, juniors and seniors take (because you've most likely completed the general freshmen courses through AP exams). And of course, they have a lot more credits than you, so they fill up those classes before you and you're locked out.

For example, there's a lot more sophomores in Calc III than an entering freshman, so its highly unlikely that you'll get a spot as a freshman because their early-enrollment (thanks to their credits) gets them in quicker than you. And even if you do get a spot, you will not get the class at the time you want, or the professor you want because the good ones are taken up right away. This isn't that much of an issue, but for me it is (I hate having 7:45 AM classes four days a week...and 6-9 PM labs...); also, a lot of people prefer not to have power lectures (which are two 75-min lecs instead of three 50-min lecs a week), but thats what you'll get if you enroll late (if you're lucky).

JiffsMom is correct aswell, I know people who have 21-22 AP credits and are basically wasting next semester because they can't get admitted to their school of choice as freshmen, thanks to the sophomores and juniors who get preference over the them.

And yes barrons, if you can address this, it would be greatly appreciated because a lot of people here are pretty frustrated by this system.