Confederate Flag in Dorm Room - Page 2

MM2028 · 10-15-2009, 12:29 AM

That is just a version of the North Carolina state flag. Have you ever seen the Mississippi state flag? It still has the battle flag in the upper right hand corner. Why get so offended over a historical symbol that, for most people, has no racial undertones. If you are afraid of the Confederate battle flag than perhaps you are looking for schools in the wrong part of the country.

williamsdad · 10-15-2009, 12:29 AM

Hunt: He looks Latino to me. "The South shall rise again"-south of the border maybe?

hopefulaspirant · 10-15-2009, 06:30 AM

If my AP history knowledge is correct, I'm pretty sure the war started because the south was suffering economically, and it blamed the north. Then it wanted to leave (Which IMHO, had every right to.)

I thought the slavery issue only became part of the war with the Emancipation Proclamation.

If I'm wrong, which I very well could be, (3 years since APUSH), forgive me.

As stated before, the south sees the flag as something entirely different than we do. (After all, they were fighting for states rights. Unfortunately, slavery just happened to be one of those rights.)

And just because African Americans find offence in it is doesn't mean we shouldn't acknowledge it. They are not the only ones to suffer discrimination in the US. (Irish did too, and very many immigrants from our southern borders, legal or not, are treated as if they are not human either.)

Hunt · 10-15-2009, 08:12 AM

Here's the truth that most people won't tell you: while some white Southerners display the Confederate Battle flag because they are racist jerks, and others display it because of their pride in their heritage, for both groups there is another reason: they do it because people from the North don't like it. The Civil War and its causes were complex, and the residual feelings in the South about it (and especially its connection to race) are also complex--but the display of the flag is pretty simple, in my opinion.

runmanstl · 10-15-2009, 09:46 AM

Is there anyone on this board that has ties to W&L? I truly am not interested in revisiting the Civil War, or debating whether racism is involved in the display of the confederate flag. My husband (Purple Heart, Bronze Star in Vietnam) and I are not "afraid of the Confederate battle flag" MM2028, if anything we find the devotion a little pathetic at best.

Again, to anyone who has recently attended or currently attends W&L...would my son be one of a few who displays his favorite sports teams, rock bands & vintage movie posters on his walls in lieu of the Confederate flag?

williamsdad · 10-15-2009, 10:33 AM

I agree with hopefulaspirant in every point.

DougBetsy · 10-15-2009, 10:58 AM

runmanstl, I'm sorry, I didn't go to W&L. But, the people I know who did (3) are about as far from the negative, Southern, good ol' boy, racist, Confederate flag-waving stereotype you can get. To put it quite bluntly, they're liberal, snobby, mid-Atlantic WASPs.

It would be wrong for me to say all the kids at W&L are liberal, snobby, mid-Atlantic WASPs based on who I know. Likewise, it would be wrong for anyone to say all the kids at W&L are Southern, good ol' boy, racist, Confederate flag-wavers based on one photo on a blog.

I think you really need to go there and see the place for yourself, ask around, and draw your own conclusions.

runmanstl · 10-15-2009, 11:25 AM

DougBetsy,
Thanks for responding with helpful information. We visited last year and all we saw were well-dressed young men and women heading to a football game. We are returning next month for DS#2's interview, and will try to get a good feel for the different philosophies/politics/personalities on campus. However, having gone through this before with DS#1, I am not so certain spending 24 hours on a campus gives anyone an accurate and comprehensive perspective.

williamsdad · 10-15-2009, 12:09 PM

runmanstl:

Well, just look at the website again, and if you see the confederate flag covering every wall and don't see many sports, movie, or rockband posters in them, I suppose you could conclude he would be.

My son applied to W&L, visited on their dime, and loved it. He told me it was a great school and he received nothing but courtesy and kindness from the admissions staff, the students that were with him on the trip, and the students that were already there. My son is Mexican, and didn't feel racism or hostility from anyone. Afterwards, they offered him a reduction of 50% on tuition as an incentive to attend. We feel tremenous gratitude and respect for W&L. You seem to imply that the confederate flag is comparable to a swastika as a symbol of evil, and I think you are exaggerating quite a bit.

If, after seeing a photograph of a minority student with a confederate flag on his wall you conclude that W&L might be a racist enclave, I fail to se the logic in your reasoning.

One of my mother's best friends was a Southerner. I called her Aunt Martha, even if she wasn't really my aunt. She was quite a character; she reminded me of "Auntie Mame."
She would playfully proclaim "The South shall rise again" in grandiose tones whenever the phrase seemed appropiate to the conversation, and I never got the impression she really was nostalgic of her slavemaster past. She seemed to jokingly be quoting or imitating an ancestor of hers who might have resented that the South had been defeated in the civil war, or that it had been opressed by the Yankees afterwards. She seemed to say it in mock defiance, or I took it as that.

I am guessing you never saw "The Dukes of Hazzard" on T.V., right? Immediately changed the channel in disgust?

Hunt · 10-15-2009, 01:19 PM

williamsdad, I think part of this is that people from other parts of the country don't know how seriously to take things like announcements that "The South Will Rise Again!" I think Southerners have an attachment to their region that may not be quite as present in other areas of the country--but it's not entirely serious. It's kind of like the loyalty some people have to their Universities--they don't "really" think grads of the rival school are demons in human form. Of course, there are still some yahoo racists, and you might even encounter some of them at some southern colleges. But most students won't be like that.

williamsdad · 10-15-2009, 01:26 PM

Hunt: Just like I dont REALLY think all Endodontists are boring people

Hunt · 10-15-2009, 01:29 PM

I remember when I was in high school in southern Virginia (which is the South, really) 30 years ago, and was heading off to Yale. Numerous people said, "Why do you want to go up there with all those Yankees? Isn't U.Va. good enough for you?" I don't think a single one of them really meant it, but they had to say it.

runmanstl · 10-15-2009, 01:37 PM

williamsdad:
Since it sounds like you have spent less time on the campus than even my brief visit last year (as in none), I really have no idea why you are continuing to comment. Just trying to pick a fight about the confederate flag?

Does having a pseudo-aunt from the south make you an expert on a school that you have never seen?

I am happy to hear that your son was treated well at W&L; I would expect no less. Having said that, you are contributing nothing to this discussion and continue to attack me for raising a legitimate question. There really must be better ways for you to spend your time, so please go away.

ag54 · 10-15-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

would my son be one of a few who displays his favorite sports teams, rock bands & vintage movie posters on his walls in lieu of the Confederate flag?

NO, he would not. There's the answer to your legitimate question.

Hunt · 10-15-2009, 01:55 PM

As long as his favorite team is from Atlanta, his favorite rock band is Lynard Skynard, and the movie is Gone With The Wind or Birth of a Nation, he should be OK.

KIDDING!