Ive been hearing a lot of people (especially from engineers and premeds) on campus and on this forum taking down to the business school. Idk how many of you new students got dissuaded from being a business major after hearing that the whole b school preschool thing. Im just sick of this stereotype and want to give the b school the respect it deserves.
1. B school is for wimpouts
Can a school ranked in the nation's top 10 business schools be called a wimpouts school? B schools profs are among the best in the school and they're always there to help. TAs are also just as helpful and knowledgable. We also have other faculty dedicated to helping us find internships and other opportunities. Companies come recruit interns multiple times each semester.
2. B school classes are a joke
Maybe at one point but certainly not now. Some b school classes are known to be notoriously hard. The exam averages for a intro finance class is in the 30s and the statistics final this past year had an average of about 60. Maybe they're easy compared to engineering classes but engineering are the hardest in the school so everything would be easy comparing comparison. This does not make business classes easy overall.
3. B school students are lazy
I've seen more lazy engineers and premeds than b schoolers. There's always going to be lazy students everywhere but associating laziness with b school is just wrong. Also a business degree requires 120 credits, same as BME. Most premeds major in something requiring only half of that. And about many of those 120 credits are general electives. I've taken general electives alongside premeds and did better than some of them.
4. B schools have Fridays off
This one is just plain wrong. B school CLASSES are never on Fridays but people think all b schoolers automatically get fridays off. B school classes are 2x 1.5-hr classes instead of 3x 1-hr classes. Engineering and other classes do the same thing so really, anyone can have Fridays off.
Last edited by TheFallenOne; 07-05-2012 at 05:37 PM.
Interesting post. Ill chime in from my perspective - I'm an engineer. I tease my bschool friends with the bschool preschool thing but (and they know) it's just in jest.
1) I know several bschool drops who couldn't hack it. I know lots of engineering and architecture and artsci and art drops that also had to switch schools. You need to find your strength... Not someone else's. I know I personally would HATE the amount of reading and group work that bschoolers have to deal with. Yet many would not choose to put up with engineering labs/problem sets. Again, it's all relative.
2) some bschool classes are indeed a joke. Some terrify me (thinking finance here. I've heard horror stories). Same goes for every other school.
4) I haven't had a Friday class in 2 years in the engineering school. I'm only having one this semester because I'm willingly taking a friday morning lab (in place of a different section that meets earlier and twice a week on tues/thurs, so it's a win in my book). No Friday classes is the best.
Last thing- I read somewhere that the average starting salary for the 2011 bschoolers was 70k. That ain't nothin to scoff at. I believe engineering is the only similar school (but it's hard to compare bschool and eng because so many engineering students go to med or grad school).
Thanks johnson. I know it's probably all in good fun but I think some people actually take it seriously. Although its probably unintentional in the way they interpret it.
Ironically I believe it was b schoolers who first coined the term. So maybe it was really way being a b schooler at one point years ago. But that's all history now. Frankly I suspect the Olin faculty are taking measures ensuring b school classes arent a joke, explaining why some classes today are even harder than necessary (this is probably wrong but I think it's funny if it were true).
Last edited by TheFallenOne; 07-05-2012 at 11:24 PM.
As another engineering senior, I also won't deny that I give bschoolers crap. It's true. Everyone does, actually. I do it in jest, some don't. Though, to address a few of your points:
1. I'll agree that bschool isn't wimpout. Though there is the common quote, BME = business major eventually. The amount of work the BMEs go through is more than your typical bschool student. Again, I recognize that it's a different type of thinking, but there's a reason why engineers usually make stupid remarks about how "easy" bschool is. It's because engineering kids usually go through more work.
2. Just because the average is X doesn't necessarily imply the class is hard. The class could've been unprepared, or the professor went too quickly. Each year you hear about the first gen chem exam and the droves of freshmen freaking out because they all failed. Gen chem isn't that hard if you think about it, it's just that you need to take a different approach to preparing for it. My Game Theory class (Econ 467) last year was proof of the latter... class average was a 30 on the midterm worth 35% of the grade because the professor was too smart and no one could follow that quickly.
3. Engineers are lazier. No contest. I don't have class this upcoming semester on Tuesdays, Thursdays, or Fridays, lol. Clusters usually wreck premed schedules, that's why they all complain about terrible schedules.
4. See 3. All it is is just building your schedule right.
I've heard about the whole BME = business major eventually thing. But that seems more coincidental since the letters fit so well. If it was another engineering field, you probably couldn't come up with something like that.
Besides, can you blame BMEs for switching out? Most of them actually end up going to med school and another actual engineering. Those who want to go into the field of engineering switch out into EE or ChemE. Besides, business obviously isn't the easiest major on campus because if anyone wants something easy there's a lot more options.
Also I have quite a few premed friends (lived with 2 this past year). They accuse me of being lazy yet they're the ones who frequently skip class and copy each other's work. I've never done any of those.
Yeah, the business major eventually thing is just because the letters line up well.
You can't fault the BMEs for ditching for something "easier." I'm not a BME, but I recognize that their level of work is probably the hardest, with something like MechE being the second hardest. As for what the hardest major on campus is, that's subjective. I personally consider Art/Architecture easy, but massively time consuming and requiring great creativity, whereas I know many people who think Computer Engineering (my major) is one of the hardest.
The laziness of people will of course vary from person to person. I lived with 3 premeds who pretty much lived and breathed pchem last year lol. Skipping class isn't an indicator of how well you will do, either. I never went to Calc 2 or 3 (and know a lot of people who didn't because of Shapiro) and they still pulled A's. Granted, this is an intro class, but still.
People copying others' work is just something that's going to happen, despite serious penalties for getting caught. People who copy usually have exam scores that are pretty bad, so no sympathy.
computer engineering? I thought washu offered only majors in computer science?
I know BMEs go through hell in their classes and no one can blame them for wanting something easier. I'm only curious as to why they'd choose business because if BME is really among the most difficult majors on campus, then there's a lot to choose from when switching to something easier. I suspect it's that business and engineering are quite similar (both emphasize problem-solving).
I know skipping class and such don't indicate who well you do in class. But it does indicate some degree of laziness. They say b schoolers are often lazy yet we (or at least I) go to class and don't copy others' works. Though you could argue we have a higher obligation to go to class because b school classes are small and profs will see if you're not there.
Not sure why people switch to business. It's probably because they have the misconception that bschoolers are usually seen with lighter workloads. No offense to anyone out there, but creativity aside, I honestly feel like art and architecture would be an "easier" choice than bschool.
As for the problem solving, hit or miss. I'm also pursuing a second major in economics, but I didn't do it to do problem solving. I just found it interesting lol.
^^Minor offense taken to that. I'm an art school student, and you have to take into account that while we may not be crunching numbers day in and day out or writing 20-page papers every week, our work is very exacting and time-intensive. Plus, our grading is completely subjective, so while your classmates and even other professors may love your work, your actual professor may find it completely shoddy and down goes your grade. Plus, studios are 3 hours twice a week, and at minimum another six hours outside of class, and THEN I think 2/3 of us at minimum are double-majoring or minoring in something else (across ALL schools), so most of us take very full schedules (I took 23 hours of class last semester, for example...but only for sixteen credits unfortunately). As for switching in, unless you plan on staying an extra year or so, we have a very specific curriculum you have to follow in order all the way through graduation. So if you try to switch in as a sophomore, you're either going to have to figure out some way to make up the studios you lost over the summer or try to enroll in more of them at once (which generally doesn't happen, to my knowledge).
As for architecture, to me at least (probably because the idea of doing both math and art absolutely terrifies me), it seems extremely difficult and is definitely the most time-consuming and intense. You're taking very hard course loads in math, physics, AND art plus half of them end up actually bringing beds to studio because they get ridiculous amount of work from their studio and their regular classes.
Reality is, no ONE school is going to be the most difficult. They're all harder than the others in some way, and different students are going to find ones more difficult than others. Someone who gets As and floats through their lab courses may switch into architecture for some inexplicable reason and sudden be barely scraping by with C+s or B-s. Someone who was an amazing artist but got disillusioned with studio (I know plenty of people who have said they're thinking about switching out because freshman year made them hate art) and decided to go into business may realize they suck at teamwork and don't understand anything about economics. It all comes down to each individual person.
Exact and time-intensive, yes. I have quite a few art/architecture friends, and they're always busy. "Hard course loads" in math and science is definitely subjective. I know many engineers who scoff at the "easy" math/physics architects go through. Their words, not mine.
Also keep in mind that engineers are used to widely varying time commitments when it comes to class. From personal experience, a computer science assignment may take only an hour or two to complete if it clicks and you just nail it, but other times it can take weeks with putting 4-5 hours in a day. Upper level classes give a month or two per assignment, for reference. A lot of engineers experience this, and to them, all art students are doing is drawing or creating models. I know many engineers with this misconception.
Regardless I'm glad you all understand the truth. I posted this for those who still believe the common misconceptions about the business school (or perhaps any school).
Bottom line is every school at WashU is easy and difficult in some aspects and often times, you can't compare them at all. Unless you're part of that Olin or have taken classes there, you've no reason to call it preschool.
Aside from premed (which is technically not even a program), the Olin Business School is another thing WashU's most famous for, and it's even more so now since it's ranked in the top 10 undergrad business schools on bloomberg
Last edited by TheFallenOne; 07-12-2012 at 01:26 PM.