wbwa

CCpost

1. Re: your question about my math: In my county "...the vast majority of students who are not outright accepted (are) placed on the waitlist" - i.e. 4/5ths of those NOT accepted are waitlisted, 1/5th are outright rejected.

2. As for your claim that maybe "Those rejected often list themselves as waitlisted." Please. Example. Check the first posted Naviance link (Weston HS, upper middle class Ct. suburban HS). Compare Wash U results to other schools in the region:

Wash U - 26 students waitlisted, 2 rejected
Oberlin - 0 waitlisted, 10 rejected
Northwestern - 4 waitlisted, 19 rejected

The proportion of waitlisted/rejected students by Wash U is DRAMATICALLY higher than among peers. Or are you still arguing that students only selectively "lie" about rejections from Wash U.

3. The other comments on this board about "1000" people being waitlisted is based on pure hearsay. The best indirect data out there based on Naviance and inumerable observations from people like the OP suggests the numbers are thousands greater. As I said earlier, until Wash U stops hiding its admission data from the public, these numbers will never be accurately known.

Wash U is a wonderful academic institution. It's time the admissions office stopped playing these ridiculous games. It's also time to stop defending these games. It's only continuing to hurt the school's reputation unnecessarily.

sparkle28swim

wbwa- i agree with you 100% that washu needs to start releasing admissions info and stop playing games. i think it would be helpful for everyone. hopefully we'll see a change soon!

Sam Lee

I am with wbwa and I didn't just look at WestonHS, I looked at few more HS in that thread and *all* of them show very few rejects but lots of waitlists for WashU while for other colleges, it's more like what you'd expect--way more rejects/admits than waitlists. When WashU says they waitlisted just 1000 people (around the same ballpark as many other peers), I find it highly suspicious because they would mean the reject:waitlist ratio is about 15:1 but those scattergram seems to be closer to the other way around instead. Are those scattergrams just somehow wacky and not representative for WashU but not other colleges? Even the decision threads on CC show the same thing--there have been just way more waitlists for WashU than others; yet WashU says the size of their waitlist is not vastly different from other. How does one reconcile this? Somehow the WashU rejects are just more inclined to lie and say they have been waitlisted?

Another stats I found unique about WashU is its super-high SAT range. Those scores are quite remarkable and unusual for a school with rather low yield. Typically, a school with similar yield would expect a 40-60 pt drop between the admits and enrollees. But the score is so high for WashU enrollees that if you add the 40-60 pts, WashU admits may actually have higher score than Harvard's. According to the official ACT site, the students that sent their scores to WashU have comparable score distribution to those that sent their scores to other top-20 peers yet in the published stats, WashU says they have ~80% of students with >30 while other peers have about 60%-70% with that score range. Again, one would wonder how that happened? Did they superscore ACT?

I have no doubt WashU offers great academics and environment. But I'd really like them to start being transparent about their admission data/practice.

newhere

I can't see why some people gets offended by the wait list, do you really want everyone rejected to feel better? The reality is that only those best "fitters" are accepted in first place, and later those with good stats are given a second chance, the ones that didn't realized Wash U is a top 15 school and don't have the stats to get in, are plain rejected (about 14k to 16k every year).
Naviance is only a guide with stats self reported, not every kid report the 20 or so schools he applied to and the results.

rodney

totally agree with all of the above who believe that Wash U is waitlist king; it doesn't, however, seem to affect the numbers who continue to apply there each year, so why would they change their practice or release admission numbers? I just think it's unfortunate for those people for whom Wash U was their #1 choice....(like trackie) who hold out hope beyond hope b/c they got that "waitlist letter"......

Sam Lee; "Again, one would wonder how that happened? Did they superscore ACT?".....yes, they actually do superscore the ACT, one of the few schools who do......

uxnaitoahz

What does superscoring the ACT mean?

Trapper

Taking the highest scores of each test as every university does (except the military ones).

Sam Lee

newhere,
i don't really have any problem with how big their waitlist is. i think they can waitlist even more if they want to. it's their choice. what i wonder is if their data are accurate. i forgot to say one more thing about WashU SAT. the #NMF (excluding college sponsored ones) they have is lower than what one'd expect based on their SAT range. so that's another unique thing i've observed.

trapper,
actually most schools superscore SAT but not ACT (at least not in their published data though they may superscore in their admission decision). i am not sure why but i suspect it may have to do with the format of common data set which isn't available to the public for WashU. in the common data set, they ask for SAT math, verbal, and writing scores but not the total. but for ACT, they ask for math, english, and composite. the natural response to the composite is to use the offcial ACT composite, not the superscored one you calculate yourself. if you do otherwise, it will show up obviously because the % of the composite >30 would be higher (possibly significantly because of the effect of superscoring not just 2 sections but 4) than the % of math/english >30.

NorthEastMom2

Sam Lee,

I don't really see a discrepancy in NMF vs SAT scores. In NJ it is very easy to have high SAT scoress (2200+) and still not get NMF status - because the NMF is based on PSAT scores. I think the cut-off last year was 224. Also, anecdotally, a lot of kids test higher on the SATs than the PSATs. My d went up by around 300 pts.

CCpost

wbwa, you are right, I misread your statement saying that 4/5 of those not accepted in your county were waitlisted, 1/5 rejected. My apologies. However, I do question that the data presented anecdotally by posters or self reported on Naviance can be assumed to be representative of schools nationwide or that this information can be used to categorize the size of Wash U’s waiting list. For example, in this thread Weston HS is reported as having 26 people being waitlisted and only 2 rejected. If this were typical of the approximately 125,000 high schools nationwide, there would be 26 x 125,000 people waitlisted per year or 3.25 million students offered a spot on Wash U’s waiting list which is obviously not possible. If Weston HS’s self reported data were typical of only 5% of the high schools in the US, there would be 162,500 students offered a spot on Wash U’s waiting list each year or approximately 7 times the number of students that actually apply and that wouldn’t even include international students.

I am not defending Wash U’s practice of not reporting the size of their waiting listing. I think students would be happier if they did. I am also not defending their having whatever size waitlist they do have, although I am not troubled by it. The only thing I am defending is how well they treat the students once they are admitted.

I have a lot of sympathy for the position of being waitlisted at a school you want to attend and wish everyone luck. I do think that the majority of students are very happy wherever they end up, even if it wasn’t their first choice originally. I think the easiest way to get through this period of uncertainty for waitlisted students is to start focusing on and falling in love with your favorite school that did accept you. If the call from Wash U comes, great. If it doesn’t, you are on your way to really looking forward to going to your new school.